2024 Off-Season Thread

[JollyRoger8]

Pirates right now have only 37 players on their 40 man, that includes Cutch. There is no doubt in my mind that once ST starts, Dauri Moreta goes on the 60 day IL. I could also foresee the same thing happening with Oviedo, but Moreta is a lock.

That will leave 4 spots open on the 40 man roster. There are guys who won't be remain on it, simply by looking at the numbers. I don't see how they keep all of Alika Williams, Tristan Gray, Tsung-Che Cheng, Billy Cook, Nick Yorke, Liover Peguero, Jared Triolo, and Emanuel Valdez.

Of that group, Peguero has no more options left, according to Cots, which surprises me I don't recall him being brought up three separate seasons. But he was, and lost an option for just coming up and playing one game in 2022.

Joshua Palacios also has no more options. That's worrisome, because if he doesn't figure it out in ST, he's either the newest albatross in the MLB squad, or he's risked trying to get back through waivers.

I have no idea what they are seeing in Cheng. Maybe he'll figure it back out. He hasn't exactly been stellar with the bat since he was in Greensboro. He was protected from Rule 5 in 2023.

Falter, Santana, Strzelecki, Wentz all are out of options. Falter is the one I'm most worried about if he regresses, they'll be in the same position with him as they ended up with Roansy Contreras.

Joey Bart is also out of options, so cross our fingers he comes back the same guy.

So long story, but here's my question to all. Does it seem like the Pirates could be in a really bad spot with the bullpen if the 3 relief pitchers are busts? Santana did well for the Bucs, but remember he was a waiver pickup. And with all those "utility" type players, does it worry you that there's too many who are a jack of all trades but a master of none?

I'm worried we're about to see another round of throwing a bunch of stuff at the wall and see what sticks.

I definitely share your concern about the bullpen. Especially when we did not resign Chapman. I would feel much better if he was still a Pirate. This whole offseason has been perplexing. I actually thought that the purse strings would be opened up
And we would add a couple of players that would move the needle. Shame on me for even thinking that would happen.

[fjk090852-7]

Pirates right now have only 37 players on their 40 man, that includes Cutch. There is no doubt in my mind that once ST starts, Dauri Moreta goes on the 60 day IL. I could also foresee the same thing happening with Oviedo, but Moreta is a lock.

That will leave 4 spots open on the 40 man roster. There are guys who won't be remain on it, simply by looking at the numbers. I don't see how they keep all of Alika Williams, Tristan Gray, Tsung-Che Cheng, Billy Cook, Nick Yorke, Liover Peguero, Jared Triolo, and Emanuel Valdez.

Of that group, Peguero has no more options left, according to Cots, which surprises me I don't recall him being brought up three separate seasons. But he was, and lost an option for just coming up and playing one game in 2022.

Joshua Palacios also has no more options. That's worrisome, because if he doesn't figure it out in ST, he's either the newest albatross in the MLB squad, or he's risked trying to get back through waivers.

I have no idea what they are seeing in Cheng. Maybe he'll figure it back out. He hasn't exactly been stellar with the bat since he was in Greensboro. He was protected from Rule 5 in 2023.

Falter, Santana, Strzelecki, Wentz all are out of options. Falter is the one I'm most worried about if he regresses, they'll be in the same position with him as they ended up with Roansy Contreras.

Joey Bart is also out of options, so cross our fingers he comes back the same guy.

So long story, but here's my question to all. Does it seem like the Pirates could be in a really bad spot with the bullpen if the 3 relief pitchers are busts? Santana did well for the Bucs, but remember he was a waiver pickup. And with all those "utility" type players, does it worry you that there's too many who are a jack of all trades but a master of none?

I'm worried we're about to see another round of throwing a bunch of stuff at the wall and see what sticks.

I definitely share your concern about the bullpen. Especially when we did not resign Chapman. I would feel much better if he was still a Pirate. This whole offseason has been perplexing. I actually thought that the purse strings would be opened up
And we would add a couple of players that would move the needle. Shame on me for even thinking that would happen.

I hear you about your comment about the offseason. I thought after the Winter Meetings a couple acquisitions would happen, but nothing. I understand the Pirates are not in on the top free agent players, but some middle range players have signed with other teams. They say they need a corner outfielder, and ST is about 7 weeks away, but is there a player out there who can fill that role? The clock is ticking on Paul Skenes career in Pittsburgh, but it sure seems the Owner and FO don’t feel that is a priority to add to the team. Yes, we know games aren’t won in December and January, but the offseason is the time to add to the roster to fill holes so your team can compete when the season begins. It is a darn shame that Bob Nutting doesn’t have the passion that many of us Pirates followers have. It is just a business to him, but for many of us we grew up loving the game, and now it is tough when the Owner doesn’t care about winning.

[Bobster]

IMHO it's a mistake to believe that the presence of Skenes will spark Nutting/Cherington into action to build a winner while they have him. So far in this offseason, like all the others, a low payroll appears to be the priority and they don't seem interested in acquiring players who could have a significant impact. They are embarked on a steady course of just keeping the team going from year to year, doing the best they can under the self-imposed restriction of minimal payroll. Skenes is a nice player to have but it changes nothing other than a reason for the fans to get excited on days he pitches.

Horwitz may be somewhat better than Tellez at 1B. Bart should be a solid catcher. Gonzalez looks like a hitter at 2B. IKF should be adequate at SS. Maybe Hayes will rebound (hope is a big part of the team strategy). Reynolds and Cruz will hit. Cutch will DH and they'll throw somebody in RF and hope (again) for the best. SP looks solid. BP is a crapshoot. Maybe they'll get lucky there (they hope).

This is how the team operates. We've seen it every year for far too long to expect anything different. I don't think they're looking at a window of opportunity with Skenes. I think they just found a shiny object to place on top of the turd they're presenting to the public.

[Ecbucs]

IMHO it's a mistake to believe that the presence of Skenes will spark Nutting/Cherington into action to build a winner while they have him. So far in this offseason, like all the others, a low payroll appears to be the priority and they don't seem interested in acquiring players who could have a significant impact. They are embarked on a steady course of just keeping the team going from year to year, doing the best they can under the self-imposed restriction of minimal payroll. Skenes is a nice player to have but it changes nothing other than a reason for the fans to get excited on days he pitches.

Horwitz may be somewhat better than Tellez at 1B. Bart should be a solid catcher. Gonzalez looks like a hitter at 2B. IKF should be adequate at SS. Maybe Hayes will rebound (hope is a big part of the team strategy). Reynolds and Cruz will hit. Cutch will DH and they'll throw somebody in RF and hope (again) for the best. SP looks solid. BP is a crapshoot. Maybe they'll get lucky there (they hope).

This is how the team operates. We've seen it every year for far too long to expect anything different. I don't think they're looking at a window of opportunity with Skenes. I think they just found a shiny object to place on top of the turd they're presenting to the public.

did you paraphrase this from a Ben C. strategy meeting?

[Doc]

I know I am old school, and everyone wants a player who crushes the ball, but I would prefer a player who hits around .275 and doesn’t strikeout tons of times. Put the ball in play and make the defense work. I might be wrong but it appears that Spencer Horowitz might be that type of player. He won’t hit a lot of homers, but he will walk, get his share of extra base hits etc. Good pitching and defense will win many games, and I like our top 3 starting pitchers. With Cruz playing centerfield the shortstop position is much better than 2024, and he may become a natural for centerfield.

Horwitz might turn out to be just as you described. That would be a nice upgrade over Tellez and Joe and I’d be happy to have it. But it’s not enough. How many more wins will he mean to the club? If it’s less than 13, and assuming 89 wins gets a team to the postseason like it did last year, the Pirates, with 76 wins in 2024, still come up short, and there’s no way any player, let alone Horwitz, is worth 13 wins.

As I said before, the Pirates need stars. Every team does. But the Pirates don’t want to be like every team. The owner is content to continue as he has been, knowing his investment grows year after year, without fail, to a height he couldn’t have imagined. He’s not going to spoil his good fortune by paying a baseball player more money than he wants to, money that he would much rather have for himself.

[fjk090852-7]

PirateFest 2025 is in about two weeks away. There have been some comments that fans should ware shirts etc telling Bob to sell the team, or even a protest by some fans. I would think these next couple weeks the Pirates might do something to show the fan base that the FO has a pulse. If everything remains the status quo the fans who attend the event may show their displeasure if there is a Q and A with Pirate Management. In the past President, GM and Manager field the questions. Too bad fans couldn’t put Bob on the hot seat.

[3pirates3]

You keep on claiming the Pirates will do something without any reason for others to believe that.

[Ecbucs]

PirateFest 2025 is in about two weeks away. There have been some comments that fans should ware shirts etc telling Bob to sell the team, or even a protest by some fans. I would think these next couple weeks the Pirates might do something to show the fan base that the FO has a pulse. If everything remains the status quo the fans who attend the event may show their displeasure if there is a Q and A with Pirate Management. In the past President, GM and Manager field the questions. Too bad fans couldn’t put Bob on the hot seat.

I don't know format this year, but I thought the Pirates required questions to be submitted in writing last year (so they could pick and choose which ones to answer).

[Doc]

PirateFest 2025 is in about two weeks away. There have been some comments that fans should ware shirts etc telling Bob to sell the team, or even a protest by some fans. I would think these next couple weeks the Pirates might do something to show the fan base that the FO has a pulse. If everything remains the status quo the fans who attend the event may show their displeasure if there is a Q and A with Pirate Management. In the past President, GM and Manager field the questions. Too bad fans couldn’t put Bob on the hot seat.

I don't know format this year, but I thought the Pirates required questions to be submitted in writing last year (so they could pick and choose which ones to answer).

They'd be crazy not to do it that way. If they allowed people to throw out questions, it could turn into chaos. Can you imagine what people, in a crowd of angry and disenchanted fans, would start to do? It would get ugly pretty fast, especially if Nutting were there. But there's no way he would be, even if the questions are chosen prior to the Q&A. He'd be a fool to shown up at the event. He has to know how despised he is.

[3pirates3]

https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/news/josh- ... e-sox-deal