2024 Off-Season Thread

[Doc]

https://www.audacy.com/670thescore/spor ... rade-talks

In the article, Getz said he’s spending a lot of time studying the farm systems of the other clubs to see who would be acceptable in a trade for Crochet. He’s looking for offensive help. That would leave Termarr Johnson and little else for the Pirates to offer up. I would think Getz would want much more than that, but who do the Pirates have in a trade, even if we include guys on the 26-man roster? He’s looking for a bat or two who can at least combine to make the same impact as Crochet does from the mound. If we had someone like that, he’d have been playing for the Pirates last season.

[mouse]

I don't see a match there. We're looking for position players as well. Ones that can hit, preferably.

[Doc]

I don't see a match there. We're looking for position players as well. Ones that can hit, preferably.

Yeah. I don't want to say we have enough pitching but it's fairly obvious we need bats, especially a couple of power bats. BC has young arms to trade and he needs young hitters in return. It's a risk, but it's a risk for both GMs making the trade. He's got to do his homework, swallow hard, and pull the trigger because the line-up can't keep looking like it has the past few years.

[3pirates3]

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2024/11 ... talks.html

[Doc]

An article on the MLB website this morning ranked the rosters of all 30 teams according to WAR, so take this info for what you feel it's worth. The Pirates were at #26, with only the Marlins, Nationals, White Sox, and Rockies below us. The writer's solution for improvement was this: "Bats everywhere, but especially at first, second, short, and right, and even that is only if you’re willing to let Ke’Bryan Hayes’ elite defense float his inconsistent bat again." He also added that the bullpen needs help.

Of course, this isn't news to any of us. The Pirates have had black holes at first and third bases, and in right field, since before moving into PNC Park. It's remarkable that little to no offense has come from those positions over the past 30 years of both drafting and signing guys internationally.

I do think the writer will be proved wrong about second base. I believe that Gonzales will be a solid player, if not a star. The guy can hit and I think he's going to continue to get better. Also, if IK-F ends up as our shortstop over the next few years, I don't think that's the worst that can happen. He'll never be great but he provides a steady defense and at least an average bat. Teams can live with that kind of SS if four or five of the other positions have above average bats, including a couple of bombers.

The Pirates are still far away from being a legitimate competitor, one that can make a serious run in the playoffs. It looks like the starting pitching part of the equation is in place. Somehow, BC has to fill those gaping holes in the line-up. The previous GMs didn't. He's going to be given maybe one more chance before he'll be shown the door. Then we'll be starting all over again. Lord help us.

[3pirates3]

https://x.com/Feinsand/status/1855234910753095882

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/ ... -offseason

[Bobster]

Doc, I agree about Gonzales. And IKF is a serviceable player either at SS or super-utility. It's sadly comical that the article says Pirates need better hitting at 1B, 2B, 3B, SS and RF. Thank goodness for the other 3 spots!

These chronic shortcomings reflect the organization's problems with development and finances. Corner infielders and outfielders make big bucks if they provide the expected offense. The Pirates will neither trade for such a player or sign one as a free agent because of payroll concerns. The FA 1Bmen they acquire are guys who are not in high demand by other teams either because they are near the end of their careers (Santana) or just not very good (Tellez, Vogelbach, Tsutsugo, etc).

That leaves development. The Pirates seem to prioritize drafting middle infielders or trading for such prospects. And when they do draft a corner player, there are problems. Huntington loved the power of Pedro Alvarez. But Alvarez had nothing else. Low BA, high K rate and terrible defensively. Huntington drafted Josh Bell, whose power is inconsistent from year to year and can't throw a baseball. He also drafted Hayes, a Gold Glove 3Bman who provides little offense when his back allows him to play. Will Craig was a bust. Cherington seems to shy away from drafting corner players, at least with high picks.

So they don't develop them and won't pay to acquire them. It's not very encouraging.

[Babe Adams]

Of course, this isn't news to any of us. The Pirates have had black holes at first and third bases, and in right field, since before moving into PNC Park. It's remarkable that little to no offense has come from those positions over the past 30 years of both drafting and signing guys internationally.

To expand on this, it's not just these positions. When the discussion is confined just to position players who the Pirates have signed as amateurs, only about six since the last World Series title have been really good players for the Pirates: Bonds, McCutchen, Kendall, Marte, Bonilla, and Walker. There's no Tony Pena behind Kendall - Jacob Stallings may be their second-best homegrown catcher. Adam Frazier may be #2 at second base.

Then look at the six good players. Of the five subject to the draft, four were number 1 picks. Three of them are the sons of major leaguers. How much "development" is actually occurring if half of your good players are #1 picks who grew up in major league households?

[3pirates3]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/590756 ... -pitching/

[Doc]

Doc, I agree about Gonzales. And IKF is a serviceable player either at SS or super-utility. It's sadly comical that the article says Pirates need better hitting at 1B, 2B, 3B, SS and RF. Thank goodness for the other 3 spots!

These chronic shortcomings reflect the organization's problems with development and finances. Corner infielders and outfielders make big bucks if they provide the expected offense. The Pirates will neither trade for such a player or sign one as a free agent because of payroll concerns. The FA 1Bmen they acquire are guys who are not in high demand by other teams either because they are near the end of their careers (Santana) or just not very good (Tellez, Vogelbach, Tsutsugo, etc).

That leaves development. The Pirates seem to prioritize drafting middle infielders or trading for such prospects. And when they do draft a corner player, there are problems. Huntington loved the power of Pedro Alvarez. But Alvarez had nothing else. Low BA, high K rate and terrible defensively. Huntington drafted Josh Bell, whose power is inconsistent from year to year and can't throw a baseball. He also drafted Hayes, a Gold Glove 3Bman who provides little offense when his back allows him to play. Will Craig was a bust. Cherington seems to shy away from drafting corner players, at least with high picks.

So they don't develop them and won't pay to acquire them. It's not very encouraging.

No, it’s not very encouraging at all, mostly because it’s been going on for much longer than it should have. The time between 1925 and 1960 had to crush Pirates fans back then. It’s been that, plus 11 years longer, for us. Is it gross ineptitude or is it being done purposely? After 46 years one has to wonder.