Pete Rose, RIP at 83

[Doc]

Doc, The NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, and all college sports are hypocrites. On one hand, the commissioners will meet out punishments to players betting. But, look at the commercials we see. Trucks, sports betting , and alcohol are all you basically see. If I was a professional athlete, I would see nothing wrong with me wagering my own money on my team to win.

I don't disagree that the professional leagues are hypocrites. I thought from the beginning that those entities having even the smallest connection with gambling businesses was wrongheaded. But anyone with a direct connection with what takes place on the field, and thus the outcome, can't in any way be allowed to bet, even on themselves or their team. In theory, they could place other bets in secret that would run counter to their betting on themselves. They could have information about other teammates betting against the team, and then place other bets to take advantage of that info. The locker room would be divided into two camps, both betting for different outcomes. No fan, those who bet and those who don't, could ever trust that the outcome was legitimate. I can't see under any scenario where those who play or coach in a game be permitted to bet on that game and it not causing chaos.

[Doc]

Doc, The NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, and all college sports are hypocrites. On one hand, the commissioners will meet out punishments to players betting. But, look at the commercials we see. Trucks, sports betting , and alcohol are all you basically see. If I was a professional athlete, I would see nothing wrong with me wagering my own money on my team to win.

I agree. I never liked Rose and at the time of the MLB "suspension for life" for gambling I had no sympathy for him. But now that MLB has firmly embraced gambling, it makes no sense.

Yes, times change. But we can't change judgment on someone who broke a law in the past and, because times change, that person now be rejudged based on times changing. Rose's situation isn't an easy one. For me, in the end, he knew betting was against the rules. He had lived under that rule for better than 20 years. He knew the consequences if caught. In spite of that, he could've been forgiven if he'd have just admitted his guilt from the beginning and begged forgiveness. But he chose a different path. As much as his career accomplishments have earned him a place in the HOF, he doesn't deserve to be there.

[Bobster]

Rose always maintained that as manager of the team, he only bet to win. They may be true, but he didn't bet on every game. That left open the possibility of signaling bookies that there were games he might not be managing to win. (Like Shelton, only he's too stupid to make money off it.)

Even if Rose was not conspiring with bookies, it was a bad look for MLB. It wouldn't bother me if he never went into the HOF but the reasoning no longer seems valid given MLB's endorsement of gambling. Those Apple TV games are awful, with the odds of every possible outcome appearing in the lower right corner of the screen. I think MLB was right to ban Rose for gambling. But now they want it both ways. Since they now endorse gambling, let Rose in the HOF.

[Babe Adams]

One thing to consider about Rose: he only managed the Reds four full* seasons, and he brought the Reds home in second place four straight times. The team fell apart the next season, which Rose managed most of before his suspension. The next season, Piniella took over, and the team led wire-to-wire, beat the Pirates, and then swept the A's.

*Minus 30 games for contact with an umpire.

[Surgnbuck]

I complained about the Dodgers a long, long, long time ago with the huge billboard of the casino, one of the very first, if not the first. Said it back in the AOL days, said it back in the old PMB days.

Now everyone is saying it, what I've been saying all along. Once they went down that path, combined with Pete Rose admitting he bet on baseball, that was the time to lift his ban, lift Shoeless Joe's ban, and consider it time served. There have been people who have raped and murdered a child, and get to eventually walk free to live their lives.I was in the corner of, "well, he knew it was wrong, and thems the rules." I am now in the corner of, "no more lifetime bans."

The BBWAA, all they have to do is just elminate that so called "character clause". There isn't a single one of them alive that was remotely around when Joe Jackson played, so they just have historical precedence to go on. Remember, the only reason Rose isn't in is simply because to be eligible on the BBWAA ballots, one must be in good standing with MLB, and in this case, Rose and Jackson are banned. So either MLB steps up, or BBWAA steps up and changes there bylaws. They already look hypocritical regarding players and steroids. "That guy used, so he isn't in." "Well, what about that guy, and that guy, and that guy?" "They always kissed our asses for interviews and articles."

At some point, people need to decide is it time to forgive, or do we just keep holding the torch for perpetuity keeping these guys out? It will be a hollow gesture at best if MLB ever reinstates these guys and put them in. They painted themselves in a corner, and to an extent, so has the public, because the public is divided on this, despite the sentimentality of the fact now both are dead.

I also find it interesting how hard and swift MLB came down and Tucupita Marcano, yet has all the looks of sweeping some unsavory dirt under the rug with Shohei Ohtani. I mean, a huge amount of money from a New Balance advertising campaign has no influence, does it? Is Marcano a red herring here? "See, we mean business!!!"

I have always secretly wished as an entity, that baseball players would out every transgression those who cover the game commit. Adultery, alcoholism, drug abuse, etc. Put their trash out on the street for everyone to see, air their dirty laundry and embarrass their families.

The HOF has become a joke. You have a veteran's committee that is just another old boys network. You have the analytics people spouting all kinds of stuff to justify putting someone in, because it looks good for agents and such to get these guys in.

Face it, you knew a HOF player without looking at stats. Now, just connected with the right folks, and you get shot after shot if you don't get in during your initial ballot phase.

Pete Rose was a HOF. Without him in there, it's not a true HOF.

[Doc]

You make good points, Surge, especially about how the Hall allows for several ways for a player to get in. However, Rose, and Jackson, violated the one rule that’s far more important than any other. Without that rule, baseball would never be able to exist at the professional level. If it means Rose and Jackson are denied membership, so be it.

[PooperScooper !]

I seen Pete in Vegas but can't remember where ! He was signing books. Super Bowl weekend Saints and Colts. I nailed the side, total and first half bets on that game. But I loaded up on a player prop bet, Saints WR Meachum over 2.5 receptions . He caught 1 in 1st Q right away and I was happy as hell and then he disappears, catching 1 later...loser