28 Losing Seasons Out Of 32

[fjk090852-7]

This is something that Pirates Ownership should not be proud of. Yes, the current group has not been here for that long, but the Nutting Family was part the McClatchly ownership when it came on board in 1996. When one reads about these losing years, no wonder free agent players don’t want to play for Pittsburgh. Why would a decent player want to play for a team which does not care to win ? I really appreciate the season ticket holders who pay good money to support a team in which the primary owner continues to want his Baseball Operations Team to keep team salaries in the bottom rung of MLB team salaries. I am an older fan of the Pirates who attended games at Forbes Field, Three Rivers and now PNC Park, and I can understand the finances of baseball are not like other Major Sports, but why can’t the Pirates bump salaries to an amount like some other small market teams.
Currently we have some young starting pitching, and some players who have not reached the years of service to get large salary increases. This offseason would be the perfect time to either trade for or sign a free agent bat or two to add depth to the lineup. We have one more week of Pirates baseball, and nobody knows if the current manager, coaches or even the GM will be back in 2025. Whatever happens Mr Williams, Mr Nutting and the GM should sit down at season’s end to map out a plan to make this team the most competitive it has been in several years. I cannot believe Mr Nutting cannot remember how that ballpark sounded during those winning seasons from 2013-2015. Winning Pirates baseball brings in more fans which brings in more money of which some of it would eventually be paid to the owners of the team. Sounds like a win win situation to me, but who knows if the current ownership wants to increase salaries to a level to be more competitive.

[Doc]

The owner has a reputation in his other businesses of being anti-labor. His view of his baseball players is no different. To him, they’re overpaid and can be easily replaced, especially when they gain experience and receive automatic increases in pay, even when undeserving. He must hate the loss of control in determining a player’s salary beginning in his fourth year.

With this view, Nutting wants no part of paying an accomplished free agent the market value. He’s avoided it time after time during his ownership. He refuses to take the risk of paying a large salary and not getting the large return he expects. As we all know, it’s extremely rare that a team can win a title, or even be competitive over 162 games, without having at least two to four of those special players. But when winning isn’t the owner’s first priority, stretching his payroll just isn’t in the cards.

Gate receipts are now a small part of an organization’s revenue. Winning, of course, brings in more, but the potential additional amount isn’t worth the extra costs to bring in more fans to this owner. He’s quite satisfied with taking the welfare the other owners give him in exchange for being a schedule filler and compliant partner.

He’s great at saying he wants to win but his actions tell us otherwise.

[Babe Adams]

I think that the farm system is the primary problem. They have "locked up" their promising young players for a year or two beyond free agency [edit: in the NH/BC era] but there have been too few of them and many didn't develop. They did sign a few decent free agents in the NH era, but they were rounding off a team that had some young talent on hand. The talent base just hasn't been there since

Per Baseball-Reference, the team's top 50 in career position player WAR doesn't include a single player who the Pirates signed as an amateur in the NH/BC era. The only one in the top 50 for pitching WAR is Cole, who gave the team 11 WAR in five years before exceeding that in two years in Houston.

[Bobster]

I cannot believe Mr Nutting cannot remember how that ballpark sounded during those winning seasons from 2013-2015. Winning Pirates baseball brings in more fans which brings in more money of which some of it would eventually be paid to the owners of the team. Sounds like a win win situation to me, but who knows if the current ownership wants to increase salaries to a level to be more competitive.

We've already been there, done that. The situation is hopeless. Even in the postseason contending years of 2013-2015, Nutting would not spend appropriately. 2013 was a pleasant surprise but the payroll was only about 53% of the MLB average. Forget the top payrolls, this was only about half of the average MLB payroll!

Payroll actually jumped in 2014. At least it was about 65% of the average payroll. That was still low but it was moving in the right direction. After another increase in 2015, they were at about 77% of the average MLB payroll. Still not a large payroll but getting closer to average. That team had the 2nd best record in MLB with 98 wins. They set the franchise attendance record. So revenue was increasing. But it didn't matter. Technically, the payroll increased again in 2016 but by only about $100,000. With MLB inflation they fell further from the average. They went on the cheap to sign a former catcher with no power and a bad back (John Jaso) to play 1B and signed 38-year-old Ryan Vogelsong to pitch after failing to re-sign Happ. And they dealt Walker for Niese because their salaries were comparable. The team plummeted to 78 wins. And no effort has been made to right the sinking ship.

Nutting experienced the highs of a good team and record attendance without even needing an average payroll. And he decided it wasn't for him. It just wasn't worth the added revenue from high attendance. He could do well and remain risk averse by fielding a bad team on a shoestring budget and reaping the rewards of MLB revenue sharing, shared network (ESPN, etc.) income, merchandise sales, concessions, parking, etc. He had the status of an owner of a top team and the fan adulation in 2015 and he made the conscious decision to go in a different direction. Other than comparing family fortunes, I doubt Nutting has a competitive bone in his body. As the owner of an MLB franchise, he is a vile, greedy, heartless, disgusting turd. I see no reason to expect improvement as long as he owns the team.

[Doc]

I think that the farm system is the primary problem. They have "locked up" their promising young players for a year or two beyond free agency [edit: in the NH/BC era] but there have been too few of them and many didn't develop. They did sign a few decent free agents in the NH era, but they were rounding off a team that had some young talent on hand. The talent base just hasn't been there since

Per Baseball-Reference, the team's top 50 in career position player WAR doesn't include a single player who the Pirates signed as an amateur in the NH/BC era. The only one in the top 50 for pitching WAR is Cole, who gave the team 11 WAR in five years before exceeding that in two years in Houston.

The farm system has indeed been a major issue. Few franchises can compete in even half the seasons without a steady influx of homegrown talent. But the one consistency in the ongoing failure of this organization over the past 25+ years has been the owner. Presidents, GMs, managers, evaluators, coaches, and all others in management positions have come and gone, but only one person has been through it all, and he's the one person who's overseen the entirety of it.

Sometimes, workers can succeed in spite of the one in charge. Heck, it's happened here three times in 28 of Nutting's seasons. That can only be described as gross incompetence.

[Wildwoodcoach]

I cannot believe Mr Nutting cannot remember how that ballpark sounded during those winning seasons from 2013-2015. Winning Pirates baseball brings in more fans which brings in more money of which some of it would eventually be paid to the owners of the team. Sounds like a win win situation to me, but who knows if the current ownership wants to increase salaries to a level to be more competitive.

We've already been there, done that. The situation is hopeless. Even in the postseason contending years of 2013-2015, Nutting would not spend appropriately. 2013 was a pleasant surprise but the payroll was only about 53% of the MLB average. Forget the top payrolls, this was only about half of the average MLB payroll!

Payroll actually jumped in 2014. At least it was about 65% of the average payroll. That was still low but it was moving in the right direction. After another increase in 2015, they were at about 77% of the average MLB payroll. Still not a large payroll but getting closer to average. That team had the 2nd best record in MLB with 98 wins. They set the franchise attendance record. So revenue was increasing. But it didn't matter. Technically, the payroll increased again in 2016 but by only about $100,000. With MLB inflation they fell further from the average. They went on the cheap to sign a former catcher with no power and a bad back (John Jaso) to play 1B and signed 38-year-old Ryan Vogelsong to pitch after failing to re-sign Happ. And they dealt Walker for Niese because their salaries were comparable. The team plummeted to 78 wins. And no effort has been made to right the sinking ship.

Nutting experienced the highs of a good team and record attendance without even needing an average payroll. And he decided it wasn't for him. It just wasn't worth the added revenue from high attendance. He could do well and remain risk averse by fielding a bad team on a shoestring budget and reaping the rewards of MLB revenue sharing, shared network (ESPN, etc.) income, merchandise sales, concessions, parking, etc. He had the status of an owner of a top team and the fan adulation in 2015 and he made the conscious decision to go in a different direction. Other than comparing family fortunes, I doubt Nutting has a competitive bone in his body. As the owner of an MLB franchise, he is a vile, greedy, heartless, disgusting turd. I see no reason to expect improvement as long as he owns the team.

Hey Bobster, My wife, Carol, enjoyed your last sentence and your depiction of Netting. She then said, "why don't they fire him"? Shows how much she knows.

[Bobster]

WWC, I guess I should apologize to turds for comparing them to Nutting.

[Wildwoodcoach]

WWC, I guess I should apologize to turds for comparing them to Nutting.

To the contrary, Bobster, she said " why didn't he just say that Nutting was a piece of shit"

[fjk090852-7]

What bothers me the most is if he continues to operate the franchise on a shoestring budget, he will do his best to sell the team when the lease on the ballpark is up in 2030, and it will be moved to a new city. If that would happen, he is a very ruthless and disgusting individual.

[mouse]

What I've never been able to figure is why a team that ends up drafting in the top third of the order every year doesn't have a loaded farm system. You would think by chance they would get some good prospects. They can't depend on flukes of the lottery system to build a team.