Official Game Thread - 5/16 - Bucs @ Cubs

[fjk090852-7]

Can`t keep playing Jack time to try someone else.

I agree he looks lost at the plate. Four strikeouts tonight.

[Wildwoodcoach]

Raise It- good pitching tonight. concerning Suwinski, there was no
reason to start him against a Lefty. It's almost like Shelton set him up to fail.
Cutch should have started. Brownie said that Cutch probably didn't start because
he was 2-17 lifetime against Steele. So he goes with Suwinski who looked lost up there.
The way I look at it, Cutch was due. Skenes tomorrow- something to look forward tt'

[Surgnbuck]

Chapman-Holderman-Bednar come through the way we expect.Holderman did hit a guy and walk a guy, and a throwing error allowed a runner to third who scores on a sac fly. But Holderman shut them down.

Chapman was the Chapman of old, as was Bednar.

I will say, I keep looking for signs this team is coming back to life. Like when they won that crazy 10-9 game, only to lose three of the next four.

So, I'll do it again. Good bullpen work following a solid effort by the starter. A couple runs scored by manufacturing them. Some power.

They absolutely have to get rid of Suwingandamisski and TellezTubby. It's time to give Peguero a call up. I don't want to hear about playing time, they all get to play, it's Sheltonville.

Bring up Bae, Lamb, Peguero. If BC doesn't think they can help, might as well trade them.
+

[Surgnbuck]

I was just looking at numbers, and it's astonishing to see that the offense has gotten remarkably worse this season, 3.73 runs per game, compared to last year at 4.27 runs per game.

That's an astonishing drop considering this year's lineup was supposed to be much better, much more seasoned, and ready to take off.

The shame is, the complete pitching picture is just as astonishingly better, regardless of the many misshaps with the bullpen. They finished 4.60 ERA as a team last season, they are currently 4.02.

I thought it was within the realm of possibility that both would improve by 10 percent. I know there are so many factors. For instance, the Pirates have already surrendered 21 unearned runs this season, a .488 runs per game clip. All of last season, they allowed 59 unearned runs for a .365 per game clip. At the end of the day, it's runs, pure and simple. Not launch angles, defensive zones, bat speeds, spin rates. Runs scored, runs prevented, that's the bottom line, regardless which statistical realm you want to visit.

So the pitching has held up it's end. The offense and the defense, and I know I'm not talking anything you don't know, have positively been killing them this year. They score 24 more runs this year if they hit at last year's clip. They surrender 5 fewer runs if playing at last seasons defensive pace.

They are essentially about 29 runs differential worse than last season simply from regression at the plate and in the field. Just think if there had been even just a modest 2-5% improvement offensively, and defensively maintaining the status quo?

This is what makes this team so frustrating. It's easy to see how close they are. One can clearly see now why scoring 4 or 5 runs has practically meant guaranteed victory this season.

[Doc]

Whoa, Bednar with an eight-pitch ninth inning! That's about as good as it can get.

[Doc]

Surge, you say you can see "how close" they are, but I'm not so sure. Teams that win have star players in the line-up. This team has none, and I don't see anyone among the young players who's going to be one. Cruz has the chance to be a star because of his physical attributes but I don't think he has the mental make-up for it, the baseball IQ. I don't believe he understands situations, both in the field and at the plate. If a guy like that is the team's best player, that doesn't bode well for winning.

I don't think Hayes will ever hit well enough to be a special player. I think Gonzales will be a solid, if not great, contributor, and I'm holding out hope that Davis will also be a decent player. What's troubling is that there's no one in the system who plays first base or the outfield who we're greatly anticipating for the future. How is it possible that Cherington's drafts haven't produced even one guy to fill those positions?

I want to be hopeful for the future but things have to change.

[bucs607179]

Surge, you say you can see "how close" they are, but I'm not so sure. Teams that win have star players in the line-up. This team has none, and I don't see anyone among the young players who's going to be one. Cruz has the chance to be a star because of his physical attributes but I don't think he has the mental make-up for it, the baseball IQ. I don't believe he understands situations, both in the field and at the plate. If a guy like that is the team's best player, that doesn't bode well for winning.

I don't think Hayes will ever hit well enough to be a special player. I think Gonzales will be a solid, if not great, contributor, and I'm holding out hope that Davis will also be a decent player. What's troubling is that there's no one in the system who plays first base or the outfield who we're greatly anticipating for the future. How is it possible that Cherington's drafts haven't produced even one guy to fill those positions?

I want to be hopeful for the future but things have to change.

100% agree. Things will never change as long as MLB has revenue sharing. If I was a businessman I'd run the Pirates the same way.

[Doc]

Surge, you say you can see "how close" they are, but I'm not so sure. Teams that win have star players in the line-up. This team has none, and I don't see anyone among the young players who's going to be one. Cruz has the chance to be a star because of his physical attributes but I don't think he has the mental make-up for it, the baseball IQ. I don't believe he understands situations, both in the field and at the plate. If a guy like that is the team's best player, that doesn't bode well for winning.

I don't think Hayes will ever hit well enough to be a special player. I think Gonzales will be a solid, if not great, contributor, and I'm holding out hope that Davis will also be a decent player. What's troubling is that there's no one in the system who plays first base or the outfield who we're greatly anticipating for the future. How is it possible that Cherington's drafts haven't produced even one guy to fill those positions?

I want to be hopeful for the future but things have to change.

100% agree. Things will never change as long as MLB has revenue sharing. If I was a businessman I'd run the Pirates the same way.

On the other hand, if it weren't for the subsidies the small market teams receive, MLB would be quite different than today's version. Maybe as many as 7-10 teams couldn't survive and would fold. So it's understandable that fans in those cities are happy with the way things are now even though their team has little chance of competing for any length of time, if ever. Just having a team is good enough.

But it doesn't have to be that way. Making it so that all teams can compete on equal footing, like the NFL, would be far more interesting year to year. But the owners are making too much money now, and since the wealthy franchises have a greater chance of winning under the current set-up, there's little incentive for those owners to change the status quo, especially since they're the ones who would have to bankroll it.

[Surgnbuck]

Surge, you say you can see "how close" they are, but I'm not so sure. Teams that win have star players in the line-up. This team has none, and I don't see anyone among the young players who's going to be one. Cruz has the chance to be a star because of his physical attributes but I don't think he has the mental make-up for it, the baseball IQ. I don't believe he understands situations, both in the field and at the plate. If a guy like that is the team's best player, that doesn't bode well for winning.

I don't think Hayes will ever hit well enough to be a special player. I think Gonzales will be a solid, if not great, contributor, and I'm holding out hope that Davis will also be a decent player. What's troubling is that there's no one in the system who plays first base or the outfield who we're greatly anticipating for the future. How is it possible that Cherington's drafts haven't produced even one guy to fill those positions?

I want to be hopeful for the future but things have to change.

Teams that win it all have star players in the lineup. Arizona made it to the WS, and what they have are some budding stars, and guys pretty much like the Pirates have. The reason we are so close, but yet so far, is the owner not willing to go say 10 million for a first baseman, 10 million for an outfielder. We get Tellez and Taylor. Arizona had Tommy Pham. We have major regression at the plate in the form of Suwinski and Triolo, yet they're still on the Pirates, and not down at Indy. There's always going to be guys who regress, flame out, etc. But those two are beyond regression, they've fallen off completely.

Cruz will never be anything more than a stat cast freak, he'll never be a baseball player. People want him at first. I'd rather he just be a full time DH, his greatest value is at the plate. More than anything, regardless what the owner allows for payroll, you have to be responsible with what you have. You have to have accountability. Right now is not the time to be building confidence and pats on the back. This was to be the year the Pirates competed. When guys are not doing the job, you give it to someone else. Those someones who need to find another place to ply their trade, whether at Indy (Triolo, Suwingandamisski) or as a greeter at an all you can eat buffet (TellezTubby).

Put together a team of guys who are average to above average, play the game correctly, get solid pitching, and you have a playoff team. Maybe not a true contender, but a team that wins more than it loses. The Twins don't really have any big time stars, unless you count Correa. They always flame out in the playoffs, but at least they're at the table. Honestly, that's about all we can expect from the Pirates, unless they catch lightning in a bottle where everything fell into place for a year or two, like KC did, or just crawl into the playoffs, and everyone get hot at the same time like Arizona did last year.

[Doc]

Surge, you say you can see "how close" they are, but I'm not so sure. Teams that win have star players in the line-up. This team has none, and I don't see anyone among the young players who's going to be one. Cruz has the chance to be a star because of his physical attributes but I don't think he has the mental make-up for it, the baseball IQ. I don't believe he understands situations, both in the field and at the plate. If a guy like that is the team's best player, that doesn't bode well for winning.

I don't think Hayes will ever hit well enough to be a special player. I think Gonzales will be a solid, if not great, contributor, and I'm holding out hope that Davis will also be a decent player. What's troubling is that there's no one in the system who plays first base or the outfield who we're greatly anticipating for the future. How is it possible that Cherington's drafts haven't produced even one guy to fill those positions?

I want to be hopeful for the future but things have to change.

Teams that win it all have star players in the lineup. Arizona made it to the WS, and what they have are some budding stars, and guys pretty much like the Pirates have. The reason we are so close, but yet so far, is the owner not willing to go say 10 million for a first baseman, 10 million for an outfielder. We get Tellez and Taylor. Arizona had Tommy Pham. We have major regression at the plate in the form of Suwinski and Triolo, yet they're still on the Pirates, and not down at Indy. There's always going to be guys who regress, flame out, etc. But those two are beyond regression, they've fallen off completely.

Cruz will never be anything more than a stat cast freak, he'll never be a baseball player. People want him at first. I'd rather he just be a full time DH, his greatest value is at the plate. More than anything, regardless what the owner allows for payroll, you have to be responsible with what you have. You have to have accountability. Right now is not the time to be building confidence and pats on the back. This was to be the year the Pirates competed. When guys are not doing the job, you give it to someone else. Those someones who need to find another place to ply their trade, whether at Indy (Triolo, Suwingandamisski) or as a greeter at an all you can eat buffet (TellezTubby).

Put together a team of guys who are average to above average, play the game correctly, get solid pitching, and you have a playoff team. Maybe not a true contender, but a team that wins more than it loses. The Twins don't really have any big time stars, unless you count Correa. They always flame out in the playoffs, but at least they're at the table. Honestly, that's about all we can expect from the Pirates, unless they catch lightning in a bottle where everything fell into place for a year or two, like KC did, or just crawl into the playoffs, and everyone get hot at the same time like Arizona did last year.

I think we’re both on the same page. This team has three wonderful starting pitchers and a bullpen that’s solid enough most nights. So the pitching staff is good enough to compete. But for this current team to reach the postseason it would take nearly each guy to have his best year, and that’s hard to do for most teams. A star or two would go a long why to not needing all the others to exceed their abilities at the same time.

But, as you alluded, the owner is unwilling to okay the signing of big time players. So Pirates fans will go through periods of 45 years or more where they have microscopic chances of reaching a World Series. Kids born today may never see a World Series in their lifetimes if Nutting turns over the franchise to his daughters like he said he would. That’s sure depressing.