Game thread 5/15

[Wildwoodcoach]

Zip, zap, kazoo. The Pirates played like poo.

It's getting old Bobster, very old. I know we have heard this many times
before but Pirate fans deserve better. The bucs throw us a bone once in a while
but unfortunately most of us know it's only temporary. I believe I said this last year.
No matter how much Mayo you use, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

[Ecbucs]

this is hindsight on my part, but I have to wonder why the Bucs thought Tellez was worth signing? There were other first baseman available but the Bucs acted like they wanted him.

The Brewers had no problem letting him move on.

[Doc]

this is hindsight on my part, but I have to wonder why the Bucs thought Tellez was worth signing? There were other first baseman available but the Bucs acted like they wanted him.

The Brewers had no problem letting him move on.

That's the difference between a team that's trying to win and a team that's trying to maximize profits.

[Wildwoodcoach]

this is hindsight on my part, but I have to wonder why the Bucs thought Tellez was worth signing? There were other first baseman available but the Bucs acted like they wanted him.

The Brewers had no problem letting him move on.

Ecbuc-Guess only Cherington can answer that one.

[Bobster]

this is hindsight on my part, but I have to wonder why the Bucs thought Tellez was worth signing? There were other first baseman available but the Bucs acted like they wanted him.

The Brewers had no problem letting him move on.

That's the difference between a team that's trying to win and a team that's trying to maximize profits.

Topnotch slugging 1Bmen are very expensive and that eliminates them from consideration. So there's a model that Cherington looks for in first basemen. And it has to be a model that is not in high demand and therefore does not drive up his contract demands.

BC likes big 1Bmen who have power but don't get high salaries because they hit for a low average and who have been given up on by other teams either because of age or poor performance. The last few years have given us Tsutsugo (couldn't make it with LA or TB), Santana (age 37 and batted .207 over the 3 years prior to signing), Choi (acquired in trade after hitting .231 the previous 3 years) and Tellez (released by Milw after batting .219 and .215 the previous 2 years). All similar builds, all with HR potential, all hit for low average.) It's trying to catch lightning in a bottle. It's a strategy of hope. Hope that somehow, some way these guys become the player they either never were or haven't been in a long time. Somehow, the lack of production that made them available and financially attractive will turn around and make them a bargain. As long as that's the model, that's all we'll ever get.

[Doc]

this is hindsight on my part, but I have to wonder why the Bucs thought Tellez was worth signing? There were other first baseman available but the Bucs acted like they wanted him.

The Brewers had no problem letting him move on.

That's the difference between a team that's trying to win and a team that's trying to maximize profits.

Topnotch slugging 1Bmen are very expensive and that eliminates them from consideration. So there's a model that Cherington looks for in first basemen. And it has to be a model that is not in high demand and therefore does not drive up his contract demands.

BC likes big 1Bmen who have power but don't get high salaries because they hit for a low average and who have been given up on by other teams either because of age or poor performance. The last few years have given us Tsutsugo (couldn't make it with LA or TB), Santana (age 37 and batted .207 over the 3 years prior to signing), Choi (acquired in trade after hitting .231 the previous 3 years) and Tellez (released by Milw after batting .219 and .215 the previous 2 years). All similar builds, all with HR potential, all hit for low average.) It's trying to catch lightning in a bottle. It's a strategy of hope. Hope that somehow, some way these guys become the player they either never were or haven't been in a long time. Somehow, the lack of production that made them available and financially attractive will turn around and make them a bargain. As long as that's the model, that's all we'll ever get.

I agree that there's much blame that rests with Cherington with regard to where the Pirates currently find themselves. He's done a lousy job in acquiring veteran position players. But how much of the blame rests with Nutting's refusal to allow him to pursue better players? We'll never know but my feeling is the restrictions placed on him are great. Where BC can get total blame is the failure in drafting and developing. So far, we've heard big promises but we haven't seen anything in the way of actual talent. This is where the Pirates have to come up big. So far, bupkis.

[Wildwoodcoach]

That's the difference between a team that's trying to win and a team that's trying to maximize profits.

Topnotch slugging 1Bmen are very expensive and that eliminates them from consideration. So there's a model that Cherington looks for in first basemen. And it has to be a model that is not in high demand and therefore does not drive up his contract demands.

BC likes big 1Bmen who have power but don't get high salaries because they hit for a low average and who have been given up on by other teams either because of age or poor performance. The last few years have given us Tsutsugo (couldn't make it with LA or TB), Santana (age 37 and batted .207 over the 3 years prior to signing), Choi (acquired in trade after hitting .231 the previous 3 years) and Tellez (released by Milw after batting .219 and .215 the previous 2 years). All similar builds, all with HR potential, all hit for low average.) It's trying to catch lightning in a bottle. It's a strategy of hope. Hope that somehow, some way these guys become the player they either never were or haven't been in a long time. Somehow, the lack of production that made them available and financially attractive will turn around and make them a bargain. As long as that's the model, that's all we'll ever get.

I agree that there's much blame that rests with Cherington with regard to where the Pirates currently find themselves. He's done a lousy job in acquiring veteran position players. But how much of the blame rests with Nutting's refusal to allow him to pursue better players? We'll never know but my feeling is the restrictions placed on him are great. Where BC can get total blame is the failure in drafting and developing. So far, we've heard big promises but we haven't seen anything in the way of actual talent. This is where the Pirates have to come up big. So far, bupkis.

Totally agree, doc

[Bobster]

That's the difference between a team that's trying to win and a team that's trying to maximize profits.

Topnotch slugging 1Bmen are very expensive and that eliminates them from consideration. So there's a model that Cherington looks for in first basemen. And it has to be a model that is not in high demand and therefore does not drive up his contract demands.

BC likes big 1Bmen who have power but don't get high salaries because they hit for a low average and who have been given up on by other teams either because of age or poor performance. The last few years have given us Tsutsugo (couldn't make it with LA or TB), Santana (age 37 and batted .207 over the 3 years prior to signing), Choi (acquired in trade after hitting .231 the previous 3 years) and Tellez (released by Milw after batting .219 and .215 the previous 2 years). All similar builds, all with HR potential, all hit for low average.) It's trying to catch lightning in a bottle. It's a strategy of hope. Hope that somehow, some way these guys become the player they either never were or haven't been in a long time. Somehow, the lack of production that made them available and financially attractive will turn around and make them a bargain. As long as that's the model, that's all we'll ever get.

I agree that there's much blame that rests with Cherington with regard to where the Pirates currently find themselves. He's done a lousy job in acquiring veteran position players. But how much of the blame rests with Nutting's refusal to allow him to pursue better players? We'll never know but my feeling is the restrictions placed on him are great. Where BC can get total blame is the failure in drafting and developing. So far, we've heard big promises but we haven't seen anything in the way of actual talent. This is where the Pirates have to come up big. So far, bupkis.

That's right, Doc. Cherington doesn't have the option of pursuing currently productive players because Nutting won't pay them. I suspect that such players are sometimes offered in trades and Cherington has to turn the offer down. The financial constraints are great. That's why he looks for the types I mentioned. The problem is that those guys are cheap and available for a reason. IMHO, Cruz should move to 1B. He would be exactly the standout type of 1Bman they can't afford to acquire externally. Then put Peguero at SS. But as long as he looks for the next Tellez, the situation will never change.

[Wildwoodcoach]

I have a question. The Bucs have a First Baseman ( Lamb) who is leading the
AAA in hitting. What does a guy have to do to be brought up. Is he on the Roster?

[Doc]

Topnotch slugging 1Bmen are very expensive and that eliminates them from consideration. So there's a model that Cherington looks for in first basemen. And it has to be a model that is not in high demand and therefore does not drive up his contract demands.

BC likes big 1Bmen who have power but don't get high salaries because they hit for a low average and who have been given up on by other teams either because of age or poor performance. The last few years have given us Tsutsugo (couldn't make it with LA or TB), Santana (age 37 and batted .207 over the 3 years prior to signing), Choi (acquired in trade after hitting .231 the previous 3 years) and Tellez (released by Milw after batting .219 and .215 the previous 2 years). All similar builds, all with HR potential, all hit for low average.) It's trying to catch lightning in a bottle. It's a strategy of hope. Hope that somehow, some way these guys become the player they either never were or haven't been in a long time. Somehow, the lack of production that made them available and financially attractive will turn around and make them a bargain. As long as that's the model, that's all we'll ever get.

I agree that there's much blame that rests with Cherington with regard to where the Pirates currently find themselves. He's done a lousy job in acquiring veteran position players. But how much of the blame rests with Nutting's refusal to allow him to pursue better players? We'll never know but my feeling is the restrictions placed on him are great. Where BC can get total blame is the failure in drafting and developing. So far, we've heard big promises but we haven't seen anything in the way of actual talent. This is where the Pirates have to come up big. So far, bupkis.

That's right, Doc. Cherington doesn't have the option of pursuing currently productive players because Nutting won't pay them. I suspect that such players are sometimes offered in trades and Cherington has to turn the offer down. The financial constraints are great. That's why he looks for the types I mentioned. The problem is that those guys are cheap and available for a reason. IMHO, Cruz should move to 1B. He would be exactly the standout type of 1Bman they can't afford to acquire externally. Then put Peguero at SS. But as long as he looks for the next Tellez, the situation will never change.

Right. BC has few resources to work with and he has to make the best use of them that he can. Moving Cruz to first base should be the highest priority. It fixes three positions at the same time as Peguero would take over at short and Joe can move to RF with the demoting of Suwinski. Why can we see that but BC can’t? Or won’t?