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Pete Rose, RIP at 83
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2024 12:06 am
by Babe Adams
Re: Pete Rose, RIP at 83
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2024 12:30 am
by Doc
Not a nice person but Pete Rose had one of the great careers in baseball history. He played with a passion, game after game, like few have. The guy was a true baseball player, able to play several positions at an All Star level, and be a switch hitter. He was rarely injured. It’s hard to name another player who loved the game more than he did. But he committed the worst offense one could commit and he deserved the consequences.
It will be interesting to see, now that he’s gone, if he’ll somehow find his way into the Hall of Fame.
Re: Pete Rose, RIP at 83
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2024 12:21 pm
by Javy
I agree with all of the plaudits about Rose's playing career. To be sure, he was not a nice person, and by many reports, not a good teammate either. He was the type of player that you either hated or loved, with no in-between. Personally, I did not care for him, and always thought of him as a me-first type of player. That said, to all who had/have opposite opinions, I respect that because we all have our favorites.
With regard to the Hall of Fame, I simply say this: As they have never lifted the ban on Joe Jackson, then the Pete Rose ban is no different in my opinion. The HOF is its own entity and can do what they wish. I am sure there will be a push to enshrine Rose now that he has passed, but Shoeless Joe was no less an icon for many, and had an incredible career in his own right, albeit in a different era. But involvement in gambling on baseball is taboo.
Re: Pete Rose, RIP at 83
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2024 1:56 pm
by German Township
Totally agree with each comment about Rose. Yes, gambling and steroid usage are taboo. But, looking back on players that are in the HOF, many players, for example, Ty Cobb, was not only a racist, but also was rumored about him betting on baseball games during his career. What about all of the players that used pills and special "juice" in the 70s' and 80s'? Willie Stargell was one of them. Ferguson Jenkins was arrested for attempting to bring drugs in from Canada, but yet he was inducted in the Hall. I could go on and on about various players and their off-field transgressions. My take on the issue is that baseball is hypocritical. Why is Dave Parker not in? Check his career stats with Harald Baines and others. We know why, cocaine. Rose was not a good person in regard to his off-field behavior and supposedly being a "good" teammate. we can argue about this forever. When voting for a player when voting, just look at his career stats.
Re: Pete Rose, RIP at 83
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2024 6:10 pm
by Javy
German Township wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 1:56 pm
Totally agree with each comment about Rose. Yes, gambling and steroid usage are taboo. But, looking back on players that are in the HOF, many players, for example, Ty Cobb, was not only a racist, but also was rumored about him betting on baseball games during his career. What about all of the players that used pills and special "juice" in the 70s' and 80s'? Willie Stargell was one of them. Ferguson Jenkins was arrested for attempting to bring drugs in from Canada, but yet he was inducted in the Hall. I could go on and on about various players and their off-field transgressions. My take on the issue is that baseball is hypocritical. Why is Dave Parker not in? Check his career stats with Harald Baines and others. We know why, cocaine. Rose was not a good person in regard to his off-field behavior and supposedly being a "good" teammate. we can argue about this forever. When voting for a player when voting, just look at his career stats.
Some interesting points you make there German.
The Cobb was a racist claim (which I believed for many years) has been debunked by many people, as it was originally created by a writer who had some issue or another with Cobb. If I can find a link I will post it.
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/who-was- ... ats-wrong/
He was however, along with Tris Speaker, investigated by Commissioner Landis for betting on baseball somewhere around 1928 when both were finishing their careers with the Philadelphia A's, but nothing concrete came out of it.
One needs look no further than Jim Bouton's book "Ball Four" for insight into the use of drugs in the 60's (and likely the 70's).
I agree with the cocaine issue around Parker, and though I was a Harold Baines fan, there is only one reason why he is in the HOF - Tony Larussa, who stacked the Veterans Committee in order to get him elected.
Re: Pete Rose, RIP at 83
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2024 6:23 pm
by Javy
Javy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 6:10 pm
German Township wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 1:56 pm
Totally agree with each comment about Rose. Yes, gambling and steroid usage are taboo. But, looking back on players that are in the HOF, many players, for example, Ty Cobb, was not only a racist, but also was rumored about him betting on baseball games during his career. What about all of the players that used pills and special "juice" in the 70s' and 80s'? Willie Stargell was one of them. Ferguson Jenkins was arrested for attempting to bring drugs in from Canada, but yet he was inducted in the Hall. I could go on and on about various players and their off-field transgressions. My take on the issue is that baseball is hypocritical. Why is Dave Parker not in? Check his career stats with Harald Baines and others. We know why, cocaine. Rose was not a good person in regard to his off-field behavior and supposedly being a "good" teammate. we can argue about this forever. When voting for a player when voting, just look at his career stats.
Some interesting points you make there German.
The Cobb was a racist claim (which I believed for many years) has been debunked by many people, as it was originally created by a writer who had some issue or another with Cobb. If I can find a link I will post it.
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/who-was- ... ats-wrong/
He was however, along with Tris Speaker, investigated by Commissioner Landis for betting on baseball somewhere around 1928 when both were finishing their careers with the Philadelphia A's, but nothing concrete came out of it.
https://pajoeguzzardi.medium.com/judge- ... a94071428a
One needs look no further than Jim Bouton's book "Ball Four" for insight into the use of drugs in the 60's (and likely the 70's).
I agree with the cocaine issue around Parker, and though I was a Harold Baines fan, there is only one reason why he is in the HOF - Tony Larussa, who stacked the Veterans Committee in order to get him elected.
Re: Pete Rose, RIP at 83
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2024 7:50 pm
by bucs607179
He broke my heart at TRS in the 70's. I do not like him but he should be in HOF.
Re: Pete Rose, RIP at 83
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2024 10:47 pm
by Doc
German Township wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2024 1:56 pm
Totally agree with each comment about Rose. Yes, gambling and steroid usage are taboo. But, looking back on players that are in the HOF, many players, for example, Ty Cobb, was not only a racist, but also was rumored about him betting on baseball games during his career. What about all of the players that used pills and special "juice" in the 70s' and 80s'? Willie Stargell was one of them. Ferguson Jenkins was arrested for attempting to bring drugs in from Canada, but yet he was inducted in the Hall. I could go on and on about various players and their off-field transgressions. My take on the issue is that baseball is hypocritical. Why is Dave Parker not in? Check his career stats with Harald Baines and others. We know why, cocaine. Rose was not a good person in regard to his off-field behavior and supposedly being a "good" teammate. we can argue about this forever. When voting for a player when voting, just look at his career stats.
Baseball regards gambling in a completely different way than the other player transgressions, like cocaine use and racism, as they should. If fans have no faith that the games are true contests, without a predetermined outcome, the sport will quickly fade away. Who would watch? A lot of things can be forgiven but gambling on games, and all the problems that can result from it, can’t be. As much as I liked Rose as a player, he should never be inducted into the Hall.
Re: Pete Rose, RIP at 83
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2024 1:40 pm
by German Township
Doc, The NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, and all college sports are hypocrites. On one hand, the commissioners will meet out punishments to players betting. But, look at the commercials we see. Trucks, sports betting , and alcohol are all you basically see. If I was a professional athlete, I would see nothing wrong with me wagering my own money on my team to win.
Re: Pete Rose, RIP at 83
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2024 2:13 pm
by Bobster
German Township wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2024 1:40 pm
Doc, The NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, and all college sports are hypocrites. On one hand, the commissioners will meet out punishments to players betting. But, look at the commercials we see. Trucks, sports betting , and alcohol are all you basically see. If I was a professional athlete, I would see nothing wrong with me wagering my own money on my team to win.
I agree. I never liked Rose and at the time of the MLB "suspension for life" for gambling I had no sympathy for him. But now that MLB has firmly embraced gambling, it makes no sense.