Off Season Roster Discussion

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fjk090852-7
Posts: 3364
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm

Re: Off Season Roster Discussion

Post by fjk090852-7 »

mouse wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:02 pm Some of the issue may be that there are a number of pitchers at AAA who could be promoted this year and on the DL who presumably will be returning this year. They may not want to impede development by clogging the ML roster with average starters.
Your point is valid. Pitchers such as Jones, and Skenes could join the Pirates during the season as well as Brubaker. The Pirates cannot be certain when these pitchers will arrive, it has been noted Brubaker’s time of arrival could be near the All Star Break. In my opinion they need starting pitchers to eat innings for the first couple months of the season. Who knows if the pitchers they plan as starters at the beginning of the season will be able to make quality starts. If they can’t,the bullpen will be overworked, and they will be buried in the standings by mid June. It is difficult for me to understand why they have not signed or acquired at least one more legitimate starting pitcher this offseason. Maybe when the team reaches Bradenton a pitcher will be added to the starting rotation. If so, the Pirates reaching a .500 season is more possible.
Ecbucs
Posts: 4166
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:53 pm

Re: Off Season Roster Discussion

Post by Ecbucs »

fjk090852-7 wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:40 pm
mouse wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:02 pm Some of the issue may be that there are a number of pitchers at AAA who could be promoted this year and on the DL who presumably will be returning this year. They may not want to impede development by clogging the ML roster with average starters.
Your point is valid. Pitchers such as Jones, and Skenes could join the Pirates during the season as well as Brubaker. The Pirates cannot be certain when these pitchers will arrive, it has been noted Brubaker’s time of arrival could be near the All Star Break. In my opinion they need starting pitchers to eat innings for the first couple months of the season. Who knows if the pitchers they plan as starters at the beginning of the season will be able to make quality starts. If they can’t,the bullpen will be overworked, and they will be buried in the standings by mid June. It is difficult for me to understand why they have not signed or acquired at least one more legitimate starting pitcher this offseason. Maybe when the team reaches Bradenton a pitcher will be added to the starting rotation. If so, the Pirates reaching a .500 season is more possible.
Teams usually pitch around 1420 innings a season (Pirates were 1430 in 2023, 1421 in 2022, and 1396 in 2021). I don't know exact breakdown in what is expected between starters and relief pitchers but probably need to have close to 800 innings from starters to not destroy a bullpen. Bednar and Chapman are going to combine for 110. The Bucs need another starter unless they are sure that Ortiz and Contreras can be effective. Even if Brubaker, Jones and Skenes all contribute this season I can't see them totaling a lot of innings in the majors (even 200 total). The 2023 team ERA was 4.60 which was 11th in the league and the team was 13th in runs scored (692) while giving up 790. Its going to take a lot of improvement in both hitting and pitching to get those numbers both around 750.
UtahPirate2
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:17 pm

Re: Off Season Roster Discussion

Post by UtahPirate2 »

Ecbucs wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:56 pm
fjk090852-7 wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:40 pm
mouse wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:02 pm Some of the issue may be that there are a number of pitchers at AAA who could be promoted this year and on the DL who presumably will be returning this year. They may not want to impede development by clogging the ML roster with average starters.
Your point is valid. Pitchers such as Jones, and Skenes could join the Pirates during the season as well as Brubaker. The Pirates cannot be certain when these pitchers will arrive, it has been noted Brubaker’s time of arrival could be near the All Star Break. In my opinion they need starting pitchers to eat innings for the first couple months of the season. Who knows if the pitchers they plan as starters at the beginning of the season will be able to make quality starts. If they can’t,the bullpen will be overworked, and they will be buried in the standings by mid June. It is difficult for me to understand why they have not signed or acquired at least one more legitimate starting pitcher this offseason. Maybe when the team reaches Bradenton a pitcher will be added to the starting rotation. If so, the Pirates reaching a .500 season is more possible.
Teams usually pitch around 1420 innings a season (Pirates were 1430 in 2023, 1421 in 2022, and 1396 in 2021). I don't know exact breakdown in what is expected between starters and relief pitchers but probably need to have close to 800 innings from starters to not destroy a bullpen. Bednar and Chapman are going to combine for 110. The Bucs need another starter unless they are sure that Ortiz and Contreras can be effective. Even if Brubaker, Jones and Skenes all contribute this season I can't see them totaling a lot of innings in the majors (even 200 total). The 2023 team ERA was 4.60 which was 11th in the league and the team was 13th in runs scored (692) while giving up 790. Its going to take a lot of improvement in both hitting and pitching to get those numbers both around 750.
There seem to be a couple of FA possibilities still out there for us to potentially get -- Lorenzen and Ryu -- but the market for pitchers has been so hot, lots of $$$ and multiple year contracts. With so much young pitching coming up I doubt we want to offer more than a 1-year reclamation contract, which seems to be our normal strategy. I keep wondering if one of those two might sign if they decide they can't get multiple years elsewhere. Maybe wishful thinking on my part, but we sure need another SP to gobble up some of those innings you guys are listing.
Javy
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:21 pm

Re: Off Season Roster Discussion

Post by Javy »

i don't know if you can get Ryu on a one year deal, even though he came off of a pretty serious injury. He may still be viewed as having some upside as mid rotation kind of guy, so I think a multi-year deal, or one with an option would be needed to sign him.

Lorenzen on the other hand, had a good 1st half last year, making the All Star team as Detroit's representative (low bar, I know!). After his trade to the Phillies, he had 2 great starts, a shut out followed by a no-hitter. All of that good pitching over-shadowed what followed, which was a fall-off-the-cliff type performance that carried into the play-offs. His upside is that he's still fairly young, but he is a 5th starter at best, with bad peripherals. A one year deal is probable, but he's certainly a "buyer be ware' acquisition. Something that seems to be forgotten, is that in his Red's days, he was employed as an outfielder and pinch hitter, and did okay, though certainly not well enough to be in Ohtani.s class as a 2 way guy. might be a better hitter than some of the Buc's bench guys though
Doc
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Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 8:29 pm

Re: Off Season Roster Discussio

Post by Doc »

It seems to be coming more into focus that the Pirates are not planning to compete this season, that we’re about to endure one more season of rebuilding. Why else would BC not make it a priority to sign a high end starting pitcher? It’s the team’s greatest need? The money’s certainly available what with the low payroll. Of course, we all know the reason. The owner, who says last year’s improvement was nice but not enough, won’t allow it. More lying from a liar who lies.

We continue to be excited every off season only to be punched in the gut every year. Until they actually begin to act like a real major league team that’s interested in competing, they deserve from us what they give to us: no respect.
fjk090852-7
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Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm

Re: Off Season Roster Discussion

Post by fjk090852-7 »

Bucs have signed Grandal for a $2.5 million dollar contract.
Bobster
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Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:50 pm

Re: Off Season Roster Discussion

Post by Bobster »

fjk090852-7 wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:23 am Bucs have signed Grandal for a $2.5 million dollar contract.
I don't get it. He's 35 and has been in decline both offensively and defensively. They need to get a good look at Davis.
There's no basement in the Alamo.
Ecbucs
Posts: 4166
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:53 pm

Re: Off Season Roster Discussion

Post by Ecbucs »

Bobster wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:50 am
fjk090852-7 wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:23 am Bucs have signed Grandal for a $2.5 million dollar contract.
I don't get it. He's 35 and has been in decline both offensively and defensively. They need to get a good look at Davis.
it is not going to be a good season if he plays a lot. Hopefully he is just insurance in case Davis is bad enough behind the plate that they don't think he can catch much this season. I'd like to see Davis catch at least 90 games, maybe play outfield in 10-15 and DH 20-25. That would give him defensive experience at catcher and close to 500 plate appearances. Also, if he hits he is going to play somewhere. It doesn't look like there is anyone blocking him at catcher, rf or first (they need to give him a little work there, they threw him in outfield last year without much preparation).
Osushawn
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:29 am

Re: Off Season Roster Discussion

Post by Osushawn »

Javy wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:25 pm i don't know if you can get Ryu on a one year deal, even though he came off of a pretty serious injury. He may still be viewed as having some upside as mid rotation kind of guy, so I think a multi-year deal, or one with an option would be needed to sign him.

Lorenzen on the other hand, had a good 1st half last year, making the All Star team as Detroit's representative (low bar, I know!). After his trade to the Phillies, he had 2 great starts, a shut out followed by a no-hitter. All of that good pitching over-shadowed what followed, which was a fall-off-the-cliff type performance that carried into the play-offs. His upside is that he's still fairly young, but he is a 5th starter at best, with bad peripherals. A one year deal is probable, but he's certainly a "buyer be ware' acquisition. Something that seems to be forgotten, is that in his Red's days, he was employed as an outfielder and pinch hitter, and did okay, though certainly not well enough to be in Ohtani.s class as a 2 way guy. might be a better hitter than some of the Buc's bench guys though
There is no reason not to sign a pitcher to a multi year deal as long as there in not a no trade clause. They will probably trade that person when the kids are ready to come up anyways so they won't be footing the contract anyways. As long as it isn't a stupid deal that can be offloaded.
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