Off Season Roster Discussion

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Surgnbuck
Posts: 10186
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:42 pm

Re: Off Season Roster Discussion

Post by Surgnbuck »

JollyRoger8 wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:42 pm Trevor Bauer has stated that he is willing to play for the league minimum. He would like incentive clauses if teams were willing to add those.
If ever there was a cheap high reward pitcher the Pirates should sign immediately it is Bauer. The guy was screwed by MLB and was never found guilty. If he turns into a clubhouse cancer then they can drop him without a big hit to the payroll. I would bet that he would be extremely careful not to cause any issues.
This is a win win.
If Bauer pitches well the fans will come around
Just stop. "The guy was screwed by MLB and was never found guilty." He was not screwed by MLB. He also doesn't have to be found guilty of anything, in fact, there doesn't even have to be charges filed. Go take a look at the the MLB policy regarding this. He wasn't convicted of anything, neither was O.J. Simpson. You okay with them dating some woman in your family?

The reason he isn't going to be found "guilty" is because of the fact the women who brought the accusations were basically saying there was consent, up to a point. For a prosecutor, it's a he said/she said thing.

MLB however, does their own investigation. They interview witnesses. And they interviewed a lot. The guy has a pattern of behavior that is borderline criminal, if only because no one has wanted to try prosecuting. He was given a 2 year suspension. An arbiter reduced the sentence. The court of law has nothing to do with this, the CBA does. The guy has millions to spend on a law team, what are those women without a pot to piss in going to get, especially with all of them being acknowledged practitioners of rough sex? He absolutely went beyond safe words, which is basically what these women are saying. Pretty darn hard to prove.

It doesn't take a conviction of any sort for me to know a guy is a criminal. And any player that has the gumption to show up Terry Francona is not a guy I want on my team. Has nothing to do with being a "clubhouse cancer", it has everything to do with professionalism. Go back and read the comments on any Pirate-centric board (this one included) and see what people wanted done with Castro because of a phone. Or when Hayes was shown popping sunflower seeds while a play was in progress. I'm sure they'd be a little more extra for a guy who choked women unconscious to play the back nine.

As far as your assertion that fans will come around, probably so. Afterall, we have the first one right now.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/353 ... mmediately
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://content.mlb.com/documents/2/9/2 ... h_2018.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M ... c_violence
JollyRoger8
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:52 pm

Re: Off Season Roster Discussion

Post by JollyRoger8 »

Surgnbuck wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 1:35 am
JollyRoger8 wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:42 pm Trevor Bauer has stated that he is willing to play for the league minimum. He would like incentive clauses if teams were willing to add those.
If ever there was a cheap high reward pitcher the Pirates should sign immediately it is Bauer. The guy was screwed by MLB and was never found guilty. If he turns into a clubhouse cancer then they can drop him without a big hit to the payroll. I would bet that he would be extremely careful not to cause any issues.
This is a win win.
If Bauer pitches well the fans will come around
Just stop. "The guy was screwed by MLB and was never found guilty." He was not screwed by MLB. He also doesn't have to be found guilty of anything, in fact, there doesn't even have to be charges filed. Go take a look at the the MLB policy regarding this. He wasn't convicted of anything, neither was O.J. Simpson. You okay with them dating some woman in your family?

The reason he isn't going to be found "guilty" is because of the fact the women who brought the accusations were basically saying there was consent, up to a point. For a prosecutor, it's a he said/she said thing.

MLB however, does their own investigation. They interview witnesses. And they interviewed a lot. The guy has a pattern of behavior that is borderline criminal, if only because no one has wanted to try prosecuting. He was given a 2 year suspension. An arbiter reduced the sentence. The court of law has nothing to do with this, the CBA does. The guy has millions to spend on a law team, what are those women without a pot to piss in going to get, especially with all of them being acknowledged practitioners of rough sex? He absolutely went beyond safe words, which is basically what these women are saying. Pretty darn hard to prove.

It doesn't take a conviction of any sort for me to know a guy is a criminal. And any player that has the gumption to show up Terry Francona is not a guy I want on my team. Has nothing to do with being a "clubhouse cancer", it has everything to do with professionalism. Go back and read the comments on any Pirate-centric board (this one included) and see what people wanted done with Castro because of a phone. Or when Hayes was shown popping sunflower seeds while a play was in progress. I'm sure they'd be a little more extra for a guy who choked women unconscious to play the back nine.

As far as your assertion that fans will come around, probably so. Afterall, we have the first one right now.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/353 ... mmediately
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://content.mlb.com/documents/2/9/2 ... h_2018.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M ... c_violence
WOW!
I did not expect to get attacked for making a suggestion on how the Pirates could improve their pitching staff while still being financially frugal with Nutting’s money.

In response, the sex was consensual even if it was kinky. The authorities never pressed charges against Bauer. In fact, a restraining order against Bauer was declined. You call him a criminal yet he was not even charged with a crime. Even the pictures taken did not support physical abuse. I’m sure there is some truth on both sides. I certainly am not stating that Bauer is a model citizen. He was allowed to play in Japan a country that has stricter moral standards than the U.S.
I do believe that people should be given a second chance and I also believe that MLB was overly punitive

Maybe it is you who should get off your high horse!

I’m done texting on this subject since it seems to be a hot bottom for a certain individual.
Bobster
Posts: 513
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:50 pm

Re: Off Season Roster Discussion

Post by Bobster »

Looking at the Bauer situation only from the standpoint of whether or not the fan base would be upset if the Pirates signed him, my guess would be that the majority would be ok with it. There is the argument that he wasn't convicted of anything. And Pirate fans were largely in favor of Ji-hwan Bae being promoted in 2022. Bae was having fine season at Indy that year when the Pirates were struggling to score runs. Many were wondering what was taking the Pirates so long to promote him. There was speculation it would not be popular because Bae had been convicted of assault in Korea after his girlfriend accused him of slapping, choking and kicking her. But he was popular with the fans when finally promoted. Now fans seem only concerned about how well he can hit. There are countless players throughout pro sports who get a pass from the fans despite unpleasant personal issues. I stopped being an Oriole fan when they signed Albert Belle. The guy was disgusting and I couldn't stand him. But most fans just wanted him to win games for them. Sports fans have short memories as long as a player produces. Especially if the player wasn't actually found guilty of anything. I think Pirate fans would largely approve of a Bauer signing....as long as he pitched well.
There's no basement in the Alamo.
fjk090852-7
Posts: 3363
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm

Re: Off Season Roster Discussion

Post by fjk090852-7 »

Bobster wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:42 pm Looking at the Bauer situation only from the standpoint of whether or not the fan base would be upset if the Pirates signed him, my guess would be that the majority would be ok with it. There is the argument that he wasn't convicted of anything. And Pirate fans were largely in favor of Ji-hwan Bae being promoted in 2022. Bae was having fine season at Indy that year when the Pirates were struggling to score runs. Many were wondering what was taking the Pirates so long to promote him. There was speculation it would not be popular because Bae had been convicted of assault in Korea after his girlfriend accused him of slapping, choking and kicking her. But he was popular with the fans when finally promoted. Now fans seem only concerned about how well he can hit. There are countless players throughout pro sports who get a pass from the fans despite unpleasant personal issues. I stopped being an Oriole fan when they signed Albert Belle. The guy was disgusting and I couldn't stand him. But most fans just wanted him to win games for them. Sports fans have short memories as long as a player produces. Especially if the player wasn't actually found guilty of anything. I think Pirate fans would largely approve of a Bauer signing....as long as he pitched well.
[/quote

I do agree with you. If the player starts pitching well, and the team is winning fans will forget about the past. Two other decent starting pitchers are still out there who have had issues mainly German, and Urias. If they have gotten their act together let’s bring them in and start competing for post season play, and not telling the fan base that is our goal, but instead bringing in dumpster diving pitchers.
Surgnbuck
Posts: 10186
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:42 pm

Re: Off Season Roster Discussion

Post by Surgnbuck »

JollyRoger8 wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 4:06 am
Surgnbuck wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 1:35 am
JollyRoger8 wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:42 pm Trevor Bauer has stated that he is willing to play for the league minimum. He would like incentive clauses if teams were willing to add those.
If ever there was a cheap high reward pitcher the Pirates should sign immediately it is Bauer. The guy was screwed by MLB and was never found guilty. If he turns into a clubhouse cancer then they can drop him without a big hit to the payroll. I would bet that he would be extremely careful not to cause any issues.
This is a win win.
If Bauer pitches well the fans will come around
Just stop. "The guy was screwed by MLB and was never found guilty." He was not screwed by MLB. He also doesn't have to be found guilty of anything, in fact, there doesn't even have to be charges filed. Go take a look at the the MLB policy regarding this. He wasn't convicted of anything, neither was O.J. Simpson. You okay with them dating some woman in your family?

The reason he isn't going to be found "guilty" is because of the fact the women who brought the accusations were basically saying there was consent, up to a point. For a prosecutor, it's a he said/she said thing.

MLB however, does their own investigation. They interview witnesses. And they interviewed a lot. The guy has a pattern of behavior that is borderline criminal, if only because no one has wanted to try prosecuting. He was given a 2 year suspension. An arbiter reduced the sentence. The court of law has nothing to do with this, the CBA does. The guy has millions to spend on a law team, what are those women without a pot to piss in going to get, especially with all of them being acknowledged practitioners of rough sex? He absolutely went beyond safe words, which is basically what these women are saying. Pretty darn hard to prove.

It doesn't take a conviction of any sort for me to know a guy is a criminal. And any player that has the gumption to show up Terry Francona is not a guy I want on my team. Has nothing to do with being a "clubhouse cancer", it has everything to do with professionalism. Go back and read the comments on any Pirate-centric board (this one included) and see what people wanted done with Castro because of a phone. Or when Hayes was shown popping sunflower seeds while a play was in progress. I'm sure they'd be a little more extra for a guy who choked women unconscious to play the back nine.

As far as your assertion that fans will come around, probably so. Afterall, we have the first one right now.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/353 ... mmediately
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://content.mlb.com/documents/2/9/2 ... h_2018.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M ... c_violence
WOW!
I did not expect to get attacked for making a suggestion on how the Pirates could improve their pitching staff while still being financially frugal with Nutting’s money.

In response, the sex was consensual even if it was kinky. The authorities never pressed charges against Bauer. In fact, a restraining order against Bauer was declined. You call him a criminal yet he was not even charged with a crime. Even the pictures taken did not support physical abuse. I’m sure there is some truth on both sides. I certainly am not stating that Bauer is a model citizen. He was allowed to play in Japan a country that has stricter moral standards than the U.S.
I do believe that people should be given a second chance and I also believe that MLB was overly punitive

Maybe it is you who should get off your high horse!

I’m done texting on this subject since it seems to be a hot bottom for a certain individual.
Disagreeing with you isn't attacking you, I'm on no high horse. There are plenty of pictures that have been mentioned where the women were bruised pretty darn well. Maybe you have access to all the case files? I provided links, I provided discussion. You disagree, fine, but don't say I "attacked" you and then turn around and claim I'm on a high horse. Of course you don't want to discuss it any further, because you're simply wrong about what I pointed out, that he doesn't need convicted of anything. Japan has "higher moral standards"? What do you base that on? The legal age of consent being 14? They blot out the penetration points in their porn? The sexualizing of young school girls? Their anime? Geishas?

And seeing as you jumped to conclusions, created a big fuss over a simple discussion, my main problem with the guy was showing up Francona! Bauer is a criminal, pure and simple. I know that world he lives in, and he absolutely went beyond their safe words. That's what can't be proved, and that's why there isn't any prosecution. You also conveniently neglected to address the fact he has a high powered lawyer team and publicity machine.

Seems it worked on you.
Wildwoodcoach
Posts: 708
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:48 pm

Re: Off Season Roster Discussion

Post by Wildwoodcoach »

And Spring Training hasn't even started yet :lol: :lol:
fjk090852-7
Posts: 3363
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm

Re: Off Season Roster Discussion

Post by fjk090852-7 »

Four days until pitchers and catchers report, and the Pirates have not signed another starting pitcher. I am very disappointed how this offseason has gone. There are still pitchers available, but I will be surprised if the Pirates sign one of them.
Bobster
Posts: 513
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:50 pm

Re: Off Season Roster Discussion

Post by Bobster »

fjk090852-7 wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 6:52 pm Four days until pitchers and catchers report, and the Pirates have not signed another starting pitcher. I am very disappointed how this offseason has gone. There are still pitchers available, but I will be surprised if the Pirates sign one of them.
I noted last season that the Pirates seem to be downplaying the significance of starting pitching. Of course, they'd love for the minors to produce effective starters but that's easier said than done. And the cost of good starters is well beyond what the Pirates pay. When they acquire starters, they are either unproven or declining or trying to come back from injuries or bad seasons. Those types are not in high demand and therefore more in line with what the Pirates will pay. In 2022 we saw Shelton often pull starters before the 5th inning even when they did not appear to be struggling. In 2023 it often seemed starters were being pulled at 70 or 80 pitches. And last season ended with a rotation of Keller, Oviedo and a bunch of "openers."

This seems to be a strategy. Cherington knows he doesn't have the budget to obtain legit starters. They see Keller as a legit starter and the rest seem to be placeholders until the bullpen can take over by the 4th or 5th inning. Sometimes sooner. So with ST just days away, they only have Keller, 2 suspect starters and 2 unfilled spots. I believe Cherington has accepted that the BP will usually pitch half or more of the innings. And if Priester or Skenes or one of the previously injured pitchers can adequately fill spots in the rotation, it'll be a bonus. But I don't expect to see Cherington making moves to assemble a legitimate rotation.
There's no basement in the Alamo.
mouse
Posts: 1683
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:46 pm

Re: Off Season Roster Discussion

Post by mouse »

Some of the issue may be that there are a number of pitchers at AAA who could be promoted this year and on the DL who presumably will be returning this year. They may not want to impede development by clogging the ML roster with average starters.
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