In timely, FRIENDLY, conversation about some of the current issues? I'm thinking presidential type stuff. I'm not interested in heated debate and anyone judging anyone else. I appreciate good conversation.
I figure if we can disagree about the Pirates and still get along we can discuss anything.
I have doubts anyone will even see this post. Maybe years from now.
In space, no one can hear you scream....
Anybody interested....
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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johnfluharty
Anybody interested....
A friendly conversation about politics? That's not easy to manage. I will start with this: I am 46 and have been voting since age 18. I can say honestly that I have never been excited about a presidential candidate- ever. In each vote, I have voted against a candidate rather than for one, and I will be doing that again this year. This, to me, is a rather sad indictment of the political process in this country. I will always vote, though, not matter how little enthusiasm I have for either candidate, because I have the right to.
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OrlandoMerced
Anybody interested....
I think as long as people can be respectful, a reasonable conversation is possible.
I agree with wvbucco about voting more against one platform as opposed to supporting one platform. The Trump platform represents a coalition that I don't agree with. It's channeling the sort of angst people feel when they're stuck in traffic or read a internet post that irritates them. The democratic platform is just about business as usual for corporate heads and pandering to all the groups that the GOP alienates. I also think that the Bernie platform channeled an irrational angst, it's the sort of angst young entitled 20 somethings feel when they get out of college and realize that opportunities are limited and you have to be patient to become established in the modern US economy.
I agree with wvbucco about voting more against one platform as opposed to supporting one platform. The Trump platform represents a coalition that I don't agree with. It's channeling the sort of angst people feel when they're stuck in traffic or read a internet post that irritates them. The democratic platform is just about business as usual for corporate heads and pandering to all the groups that the GOP alienates. I also think that the Bernie platform channeled an irrational angst, it's the sort of angst young entitled 20 somethings feel when they get out of college and realize that opportunities are limited and you have to be patient to become established in the modern US economy.
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DemDog
Anybody interested....
I'm 68 been voting for awhile. Never miss an opportunity to vote. I will also be up front and state that I am a "Progressive". Yeh, a darned "Liberal" ;D
But I can go back and look at how politics have changed over the years I become distressed. Republicans are not the same as they were in my youth and young adulthood. Yes, they were always conservative but they have moved very, very far to the right.
As for Democrats, and I am registered as one, have changed as well. They have become more progressive but not as far left as the Republican party has gone right.
In this campaign I was a Bernie supporter and feel that many of his campaign platform issues are what this country needs. Alas, he lost but some of his ideas are included in the Democrat platform.
There is where I am. Now an observation on why I think the voters in this Presidential election will vote they way they do. One word describes it: FEAR. Both sides are voting against a candidate not so much because they disagree with their stances and policies but because of who they perceive the other candidate to be and how they would govern.
Where do these ideas of fear come from? Well from the media! From so called news media to whomever you read and listen to on the web.
Of course then there is the money. Oh, the money, don't care which party you choose, there is so much money being poured into the campaigns from all these crazy PACs that do not need to list donors and who have no limit on how much they can give a candidate. And I wonder just how much of a certain candidate's mega high speaking fees go into her campaign coffers?
Lest we lose sight of the real problem with politicians in this country we need to focus not so much on the top of the heap but also on the workers in Congress, the congresswomen and men, the members of the senate. That is where the laws are made and amended. We need to chose more folks there who responding to the wishes of their constituents not the party they belong to. And that goes not just for national office but for state, county and even local officials.
Sorry for the rant guys. Chime in and discuss some or all of my comments. Will not ban anybody who even vehemently disagrees with me. Just don't call me names please!
But I can go back and look at how politics have changed over the years I become distressed. Republicans are not the same as they were in my youth and young adulthood. Yes, they were always conservative but they have moved very, very far to the right.
As for Democrats, and I am registered as one, have changed as well. They have become more progressive but not as far left as the Republican party has gone right.
In this campaign I was a Bernie supporter and feel that many of his campaign platform issues are what this country needs. Alas, he lost but some of his ideas are included in the Democrat platform.
There is where I am. Now an observation on why I think the voters in this Presidential election will vote they way they do. One word describes it: FEAR. Both sides are voting against a candidate not so much because they disagree with their stances and policies but because of who they perceive the other candidate to be and how they would govern.
Where do these ideas of fear come from? Well from the media! From so called news media to whomever you read and listen to on the web.
Of course then there is the money. Oh, the money, don't care which party you choose, there is so much money being poured into the campaigns from all these crazy PACs that do not need to list donors and who have no limit on how much they can give a candidate. And I wonder just how much of a certain candidate's mega high speaking fees go into her campaign coffers?
Lest we lose sight of the real problem with politicians in this country we need to focus not so much on the top of the heap but also on the workers in Congress, the congresswomen and men, the members of the senate. That is where the laws are made and amended. We need to chose more folks there who responding to the wishes of their constituents not the party they belong to. And that goes not just for national office but for state, county and even local officials.
Sorry for the rant guys. Chime in and discuss some or all of my comments. Will not ban anybody who even vehemently disagrees with me. Just don't call me names please!
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johnfluharty
Anybody interested....
Sometimes I wonder if the whole structure should change. I wonder how things would be different if we voted only for our local leadership (state senators, etc.) then they in turn voted for the national ones. That would, at least, change the focus of many people from the nation to the state or county. Maybe a bad idea- I haven't put a ton of thought into it.
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DemDog
Anybody interested....
0B0E090F070D140900131518610 wrote: Sometimes I wonder if the whole structure should change. I wonder how things would be different if we voted only for our local leadership (state senators, etc.) then they in turn voted for the national ones. That would, at least, change the focus of many people from the nation to the state or county. Maybe a bad idea- I haven't put a ton of thought into it.
Until the 17th Amendment to the Constitution was ratified in 1912 the Senate was elected by state officials. See here: 17th Amendment to US Constitution. So it has been tried and obviously the citizens did not like it they way you are suggesting.
I think where we need to get local folks elected that we trust and respect is a starting ground for them to move up higher by doing the things they promised and were expected from them. Unfortunately though, it is difficult for a local politician to move up into county or state races because of the great amounts of money needed and you know what comes with that money! A shame to say the least.
Of course a candidate can get around a lot of the lack of money by simply having daily pressers or getting invited to some organization and speaking for free and at the same time making ridiculous and often not thought out comments. Comments so outrageous that they make the news headlines. There you go, free campaign advertising.
Until the 17th Amendment to the Constitution was ratified in 1912 the Senate was elected by state officials. See here: 17th Amendment to US Constitution. So it has been tried and obviously the citizens did not like it they way you are suggesting.
I think where we need to get local folks elected that we trust and respect is a starting ground for them to move up higher by doing the things they promised and were expected from them. Unfortunately though, it is difficult for a local politician to move up into county or state races because of the great amounts of money needed and you know what comes with that money! A shame to say the least.
Of course a candidate can get around a lot of the lack of money by simply having daily pressers or getting invited to some organization and speaking for free and at the same time making ridiculous and often not thought out comments. Comments so outrageous that they make the news headlines. There you go, free campaign advertising.
Anybody interested....
Possum, let me say first that I really enjoyed reading your "rant". We're of the same generation (although I arrived on the planet just a little after you did 
) and we share many of the same progressive views.
Although I'm a registered Independent (and always have been) it has been many years now since I've voted for a Republican candidate at any level. That was not always the case and I truly miss the days when bi-partisan politics were the norm. Where the good of the country and its citizens was the focus. Where governance and not politics was the job of our elected officials. In those days great legislation was born of compromise and the meeting of minds with differing views. There is an inherent value in both conservative and liberal viewpoints in our society. Unfortunately the prevalent attitude today is of mutual exclusivity not a search for common ground.
Today it seems the main concern of the majority of our elected officials is not to serve the country but to be re-elected. Political energy that was once used to create better laws is now expended on fund raising or bashing the other party. New ideas and improving government has given way to intractable ideology and legislative gridlock. In my view our political system is broken and the only way to begin to fix it is to begin with election reform measures that take big money out of our political process. It's disheartened me to no small extent to see election reform legislation defeated time and again. I'm afraid that today the inmates are running the asylum. We the people deserve better.
) and we share many of the same progressive views. Although I'm a registered Independent (and always have been) it has been many years now since I've voted for a Republican candidate at any level. That was not always the case and I truly miss the days when bi-partisan politics were the norm. Where the good of the country and its citizens was the focus. Where governance and not politics was the job of our elected officials. In those days great legislation was born of compromise and the meeting of minds with differing views. There is an inherent value in both conservative and liberal viewpoints in our society. Unfortunately the prevalent attitude today is of mutual exclusivity not a search for common ground.
Today it seems the main concern of the majority of our elected officials is not to serve the country but to be re-elected. Political energy that was once used to create better laws is now expended on fund raising or bashing the other party. New ideas and improving government has given way to intractable ideology and legislative gridlock. In my view our political system is broken and the only way to begin to fix it is to begin with election reform measures that take big money out of our political process. It's disheartened me to no small extent to see election reform legislation defeated time and again. I'm afraid that today the inmates are running the asylum. We the people deserve better.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Anybody interested....
I wasn't always so cynical. But im just about ready to believe that anybody that runs for office is automatically unfit to hold the office.
I don't think I've ever voted against a presidential candidate, I've always found a reason to vote "for" someone. But with this election, there is simply no one to vote "for" IMHO.
I don't mean to offend anyone on here, but I genuinely believe that Clinton avoided indictment simply because she is above the law compared to the rest of us. And Trump I'm convinced doesn't know the difference between the constitution and his own warped opinion.
Can anyone give me even one positive reason to vote for either of these two?
Possum For President
"A Possum In Every Pot"
I don't think I've ever voted against a presidential candidate, I've always found a reason to vote "for" someone. But with this election, there is simply no one to vote "for" IMHO.
I don't mean to offend anyone on here, but I genuinely believe that Clinton avoided indictment simply because she is above the law compared to the rest of us. And Trump I'm convinced doesn't know the difference between the constitution and his own warped opinion.
Can anyone give me even one positive reason to vote for either of these two?
Possum For President
"A Possum In Every Pot"
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johnfluharty
Anybody interested....
I agree with you VA. Where I work I have to have do 'insider threat' training every year. A lot of this has to do with people who cause problems without specific intent but just by being lazy about security. Only a very few elite people such as she could be as sloppy and casual about security as she was w/r her email and not at the very least lose their security clearance, their job, and ANY potential to work for the government in the future. Because she is who she is, she got away with it. I, for one, hope she learned a lesson, because she will likely be our next president.
Anybody interested....
6E697F77796E29255C7B717D7570327F73711C0 wrote: I wasn't always so cynical. But im just about ready to believe that anybody that runs for office is automatically unfit to hold the office.
I don't think I've ever voted against a presidential candidate, I've always found a reason to vote "for" someone. But with this election, there is simply no one to vote "for" IMHO.
I don't mean to offend anyone on here, but I genuinely believe that Clinton avoided indictment simply because she is above the law compared to the rest of us. And Trump I'm convinced doesn't know the difference between the constitution and his own warped opinion.
Can anyone give me even one positive reason to vote for either of these two?
Possum For President
"A Possum In Every Pot"
I can give you my 'positive' reasoning although it is not necessarily something that everyone will view as lavishly positive.
The last true Washington outsider that was elected president was Jimmy Carter. He is a man that I admire as a thoughtful, intelligent and ethical human being, arguably the man with the finest character to hold the office of president in my lifetime.
Unfortunately his presidency was a failure on many levels. He lacked the experience and knowledge to wield executive power, build consensus and to effectively lead the nation. Learning on the job as president is necessary and expected, but there is a minimum basic prerequisite understanding of the job that must be met for a successful presidency.
Of the two major candidates only Hillary Clinton has the experience in government to meet that prerequisite. Donald Trump has less government experience than Jimmy Carter. I would expect a Trump presidency to be fraught with the same practical inadequacies as the Carter administration. In fact when it comes to building consensus it's clear that Donald Trump's problem in achieving that even within his own party is worse than Carter's. One can agree or disagree with Trump's proposed policies, but I see his chances of accomplishing anything as president as extremely remote.
I will be voting for Hillary Clinton mostly in recognition of her experience in the executive and legislative branches of government and her knowledge of how to 'work the system' which a leader must do to be able to lead. I would rather have a strong and successful presidency where I may not be in total agreement with every policy than a failed presidency of any sort.
I don't think I've ever voted against a presidential candidate, I've always found a reason to vote "for" someone. But with this election, there is simply no one to vote "for" IMHO.
I don't mean to offend anyone on here, but I genuinely believe that Clinton avoided indictment simply because she is above the law compared to the rest of us. And Trump I'm convinced doesn't know the difference between the constitution and his own warped opinion.
Can anyone give me even one positive reason to vote for either of these two?
Possum For President
"A Possum In Every Pot"
I can give you my 'positive' reasoning although it is not necessarily something that everyone will view as lavishly positive.
The last true Washington outsider that was elected president was Jimmy Carter. He is a man that I admire as a thoughtful, intelligent and ethical human being, arguably the man with the finest character to hold the office of president in my lifetime.
Unfortunately his presidency was a failure on many levels. He lacked the experience and knowledge to wield executive power, build consensus and to effectively lead the nation. Learning on the job as president is necessary and expected, but there is a minimum basic prerequisite understanding of the job that must be met for a successful presidency.
Of the two major candidates only Hillary Clinton has the experience in government to meet that prerequisite. Donald Trump has less government experience than Jimmy Carter. I would expect a Trump presidency to be fraught with the same practical inadequacies as the Carter administration. In fact when it comes to building consensus it's clear that Donald Trump's problem in achieving that even within his own party is worse than Carter's. One can agree or disagree with Trump's proposed policies, but I see his chances of accomplishing anything as president as extremely remote.
I will be voting for Hillary Clinton mostly in recognition of her experience in the executive and legislative branches of government and her knowledge of how to 'work the system' which a leader must do to be able to lead. I would rather have a strong and successful presidency where I may not be in total agreement with every policy than a failed presidency of any sort.