OnlyBucs

Glad to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/30/spor ... .html?_r=0

On thing I've noticed though . . . I agree that it's a "weird" stat.  And people don't want their team to keep their best closer around for an arbitrary save inning.  Thing is, though, that we don't. 



(To be fair, as flawed as the stat is it least it was SOMETHING for shutdown closers at a time when there wasn't any recognition.)

I always thought that was a stat agents made up to get more money for pitchers. (I also thought they were now trying to promote the "hold" as a stat). I preferred the old Fireman of the Year (was that an actual award?).

32302A2C3A5F0 wrote: I always thought that was a stat agents made up to get more money for pitchers. (I also thought they were now trying to promote the "hold" as a stat). I preferred the old Fireman of the Year (was that an actual award?).


It was more a promotion for Rolaids than an official award. So when Rolaids stopped sponsoring it, it ended.

665458584C7E5D54595C5354350 wrote: On thing I've noticed though . . . I agree that it's a "weird" stat.  And people don't want their team to keep their best closer around for an arbitrary save inning.  Thing is, though, that we don't. 


I agree that Rivero is better than Watson. But I don't believe that's why Rivero is not being held back to pick up save stats. In fact, I believe he's being "groomed" exactly for that. It seems there's politics involved and they don't want to just take the closer role away from Watson. Especially when Hurdle already said he didn't think it was fair to not use Watson in save situations because it might lessen his next contract. Also, teams make such a big deal about naming someone their closer that they think they have to groom someone for that job, which they are probably doing with Rivero. It's always seemed a waste to me to move a good setup man whose been getting out of 7th and 8th inning jams into the closer role where he will sit back and wait for saves while a lesser pitcher might be unable to get out of those earlier inning jams. For that reason it seems to me that managers place more importance on collecting saves than on winning games.

Here is my thought on a stat for relievers.

My biggest problem with reliever stats is that they can give up inherited runs and it never shows up on their twlky sheet of stats.

For example, if a reliever (let's call him say ...Jared Hughes) comes into a game with a 3-0 lead and bases loaded, gives up 2 of those runs, he leaves with a 0.00 era and a hold.



So here is my idea for a stat. If a reliever comes into the game with a man on third and the runner scores, the reliever gets 1 point. If a guy scores from 2nd, 2 points, and from first, 3 points. Batters would be worth four points if they score.

For example, Jared Hughes comes in with no outs and the bases loaded and the men on 2nd and 3rd score, he would tally 3 points.

I would then divide that by outs recorded. In this case Jared Hughes recorded three outs. His (name the stat) would be 1.00.



For example, last night, Blake Wood entered the game with runners on Ngoepe on first and Diaz onthird. Both scored for 4 points. Merced scored as a batter for 4 more points. Wood got 4 outs, so his (name the stat) for last night would be 2.00.



Any thoughts?

My problem is not the actual save stat but rather the way managers manage their bullpens with the stat in mind. Saves have been around a long time. Face, Giusti, Gossage and Teke collected plenty of them but were used as needed and not just to collect the stat. If they could "figuratively" save the game by getting out of a nasty jam in an earlier inning, no one cared which reliever pitched the 9th and got the literal save. Those guys always led the team in saves but there were always several other relievers with a handful of saves apiece.



My only problem with the statistic is that I object to entering with a 3-run lead, giving up 2 runs and getting a save stat because you only screwed up enough to just avoid losing. The 3-run save is just too easy. I would limit saves to 1 and 2-run leads and would not give a save in a 2-run lead if the closer gave up a run.

Tintin, it makes sense. Using Hughes, he had a great year of getting out of jams in 2015. The stats didn't show it. Then when he had a bad year last year of giving up runs, stats didn't show that either.



Relief pitchers rarely get recognized. I think the "Hold" stat is trying to help, but it isn't really catching on.



Hurdle is actually using his best relievers the way people want. Rivero is usually pitching when there is a jam late.



The Orioles got a lot of heat last year by not using their Cy Young candidate in the playoffs. But what if they brought Britton into the game in the sixth inning to get out of that situation? Britton would have been unavailable in the 11th or 12th (I still can't believe Britton didn't pitch at all in the 11th) when one run wins the game.

1D3A31125F0 wrote: I always thought that was a stat agents made up to get more money for pitchers. (I also thought they were now trying to promote the "hold" as a stat). I preferred the old Fireman of the Year (was that an actual award?).


It was more a promotion for Rolaids than an official award. So when Rolaids stopped sponsoring it, it ended.


The Sporting News had a fireman (the reliever of the year) -established in 1960, before Rolaids award was established. Rolaids award was based on stats and Sporting News award on vote by its editors. There is a wikipedia story on each. Roy Face and Al McBean are only Pirates to win. Here is link to Rolaids award (established in 1976) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolaids_Relief_Man_Award

I don't think the Rolaids one was ever called Fireman, just "Relief Pitcher of the Year' with the word 'Relief' in the title because of what the Rolaids tablets are used for.