More than 20% of the season is over and...

[Quail]

The Pirates are a mess.



I took a look at the prediction thread yesterday. There was so much optimism. I doubt if most here would be more optimistic than even the lowest prediction (77-85) in that thread.



In fact the Pirates are currently on pace for a 69 win season and 595 runs scored. They rank 13th out of 15 NL teams in errors committed and 14th out of 15 in fielding percentage. They rank dead last in the NL in caught stealings, and if there were an official stat for boneheaded base running plays I suspect they'd be a runaway (pun intended) leader in that category.



It seems the Pirates can't catch a break. Sure they're terrible at fundamental baseball but losing Kang, Marte, Freese, and Frazier has gutted an offense that might have been decent.



They've gotten some really good pitching. Nova, Cole and Taillon have been everything we'd hoped for. Kuhl and Glasnow have had some growing pains but have done well enough and are improving in ways that are really encouraging. The relief pitching has been generally decent with Rivero emerging as a top notch talent. Then of course there comes the tragic news of Taillon's cancer diagnosis. Talk about no breaks.



Can the Pirates turn this season around? Can a team with good pitching and a weak offense win consistently when they can't make plays in the field or run the bases effectively?



Is Clint's managing helping or hurting? Are there deals that Huntington could make to turn the team around?



If you were the manager or the GM what would be your strategy to rescue a season seemingly headed for the abyss?

[mouse]

I was expecting the team to play good defense and win games 3 - 2 and so forth. The total defensive collapse is surprising to me (although the loss of Marte certainly contributes to that). I think we are about at the point where we start a list of people to trade in July.

[Bobster21]

785C484045290 wrote:

If you were the manager or the GM what would be your strategy to rescue a season seemingly headed for the abyss?   
A mgr or GM who works under Nutting? I think the obvious answer would be to acquire bats to replace Kang and Marte. But that's not happening. That requires taking on contracts. The payroll was reduced this year after a 78-win season and they are saving more money by not paying Kang and Marte for the time they miss while carrying only 2 outfielders on the roster. And now that Freese and Frazier will start when healthy rather than being good bench players, the bench is very weak. They could try to acquire someone for the bench better than Jaso, Hanson, Bostick, Moroff and Gosselin. But that doesn't seem to be happening either. As a manager, Hurdle could stress fundamentals in hopes of preventing his players from defeating themselves with idiotic plays. And he could try to put his best players (such as they are) on the field rather than giving games away like his Sunday lineup this weak week. But Pirates management seems to be dealing with all the unforeseen setbacks this season with a general malaise. Need an outfielder? Stick Jaso out there and hope they don't hit the ball to him. Need a third baseman? Move Harrison to 3B and rotate whoever is on the bench at 2B. Bench is inadequate after a lack of off season moves? Bring up a couple guys from AAA. It seems obvious the FO has already punted on the season. I see 2 possibilities: either a total free fall leading to a 65-70 win season or a return of Marte and maybe even Kang and improved hitting from the rest to play .500 ball in the last 2-3 months of the season (but not enough to make up for the bad first half so still a sub .500 team).

[Ecbucs]

the awful defense is just shocking to me. The team has been stressing defense the entire time NH has been gm. Polanco is a total mystery on defense.



Its like going back to the days of the Pirates thinking Lee Mazilli and Brant Brown could be answers in centerfield.



I have laughed at Reds rebuilding process and a little at the Braves but both of those teams seem to have a brighter future than the Bucs.



I am ready for a new GM but I don't know that any GM can be successful under the limitations placed by Nutting.



I think NH is close to having running out of GM bullets (he may be a good gm but the Bucs need a great one) and if poor play and losses continue to pile up he and Hurdle should go.



I think Bobster's comment about responding with general malaise is a damning comment and if close to being true shows it is time for a change.

[dogknot17@yahoo.co]

I think if the Pirates need to rebuild, Huntington should be the man to do it. He has done it before.



I don't think a complete rebuild is necessary. The Pirates still have many younger players signed to great deals. The starting pitching looks good for a few years. The players who could/should be traded have replacements in the minors who are very close.



I don't know. Very frustrating start. I do think not having Marte, Frazier, Kang, Freese was a huge blow. We will see how the team does when Freese and Frazier get back. Could make a huge difference. Could. Taillon's status being in question could end this season real quick. I am hoping a few weeks, but that is best case scenario.

[mouse]

I think a best case scenerio for Taillon is a month. My original thought on Kang was May 1. That called for an agreeable judge. Apparently that will not be the case, so he is likely gone for the season.



On the other hand, they should get a good position in the draft next year.

[SammyKhalifa]

FWIW Kang's new hearing is May 25 if I recall correctly.

[rucker59@gmail.com]

I'd be planning to move a bunch of pieces. It's clear this "window" is closed. I'd be looking to create a new window around Meadows, Bell and either Marte or Polanco, and the young pitching rotation.



I'd be looking to cash out on Cutch, either Marte or Polanco, Cole, and maybe Harrison. There are enough pieces that I think the Pirates can rebuild quickly. If they sit on assets one more year they waste an extra year and they lose value in the players traded.



There is no way no how I sit on this current team.



If the Reds and Brewers do finish better than the Pirates the Pirates should be laughed out of MLB.

[Ecbucs]

606771797760272B52757F737B7E3C717D7F120 wrote: I'd be planning to move a bunch of pieces.  It's clear this "window" is closed.  I'd be looking to create a new window around Meadows, Bell and either Marte or Polanco, and the young pitching rotation.



I'd be looking to cash out on Cutch, either Marte or Polanco, Cole, and maybe Harrison.  There are enough pieces that I think the Pirates can rebuild quickly.  If they sit on assets one more year they waste an extra year and they lose value in the players traded.



There is no way no how I sit on this current team. 



If the Reds and Brewers do finish better than the Pirates the Pirates should be laughed out of MLB.








This season is probably going to be the time to move players, hopefully they will improve performance first though as now most are under achieving. Got to disagree about the window closing. the Pirate plan doesn't include a window, it is to be competitive year in and year out.



That competitive year in and year out statement by NH is a reason I don't think he should be around if the team doesn't contend this year. He will have failed at his own self-stated goal which was used as a reason to not go all in during past seasons.

[rucker59@gmail.com]

694F4E594F5F2C0 wrote: I'd be planning to move a bunch of pieces.  It's clear this "window" is closed.  I'd be looking to create a new window around Meadows, Bell and either Marte or Polanco, and the young pitching rotation.



I'd be looking to cash out on Cutch, either Marte or Polanco, Cole, and maybe Harrison.  There are enough pieces that I think the Pirates can rebuild quickly.  If they sit on assets one more year they waste an extra year and they lose value in the players traded.



There is no way no how I sit on this current team. 



If the Reds and Brewers do finish better than the Pirates the Pirates should be laughed out of MLB.








This season is probably going to be the time to move players, hopefully they will improve performance first though as now most are under achieving.  Got to disagree about the window closing.  the Pirate plan doesn't include a window, it is to be competitive year in and year out.



That competitive year in and year out statement by NH is a reason I don't think he should be around if the team doesn't contend this year.  He will have failed at his own self-stated goal which was used as a reason to not go all in during past seasons.


Unfortunately, you are correct about Neil's "plan" and I was thinking specifically of that when I mentioned the Reds and/or Brewers blowing past the Pirates.