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Another pitcher questions development under NH regime.

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:17 am
by Bobster21
Per the PG, Geoff Hartlieb has questioned how pitchers were developed under the previous regime. Previously Cole and Glasnow have attributed their progress to things they learned after leaving the Pirates.



The article notes:



Last season — the first with pitching coach Oscar Marin calling the shots — the Pirates were much more analytically driven and had Hartlieb throw almost exclusively sinkers and sliders, his two most effective weapons.



“I didn’t know what was expected of me coming up through the system,” Hartlieb said. “I’d get to spring training, and I’d be working on a cutter, changeup or four-seamer, trying to have multiple things to go to battle with.



“But in the end, if you do even one thing really well and you can complement that with something that’s pretty good, there are guys that have done a lot more with a lot less in this game. It’s finding out what works for you and being comfortable with that. I’ve finally embraced who I am as a pitcher and just letting it work.”



Hartlieb’s comments sounds similar to Tyler Glasnow’s last spring. The Rays ace told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette how the Pirates really didn’t have much of an answer for his developmental struggles, instead having the hard-throwing right-hander with a terrific four-seamer-curveball mix to pound sinkers at the bottom of the strike zone.



With Hartlieb, a reliever who generally sits in the mid-90s with his sinker, it was the same sort of thing. His four-seamer netted a .520 slugging percentage against in 2019, so Hartlieb shelved it. The impetus became better location of his sinker and trying to sync its arm slot with his slider, tunneling the two together.



But until recently, when Marin and bullpen coach Justin Message took charge prior to there 2020 season, Hartlieb said he never really had a concrete plan of attack.



“The biggest thing for me was finally getting clarity from our new coaching staff and guys who were in charge of the pitching side of things,” Hartlieb said. “They just kind of told me, ‘Hey, we think this will work. We think this is what you need to do.’



“All anybody can ask for is direction and an exact clarification on what they want from us. I feel like I finally really got that and was able to just kind of build on that and roll with it and just embrace sinker-slider. … I’m feeling really good about it right now.”



https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/pir ... 2103090127



There's more but that's the gist of the article. In fairness to the prior regime, I don't think a 60 game 2020 season is enough to conclude the current regime will get better results via pitcher development. So it remains to be seen if the current regime will fare better. OTOH, we've seen too many Pirate pitchers suddenly improve upon joining another team so maybe there was a correctable problem in the organization that can lead to better results.

Another pitcher questions development under NH regime.

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:53 am
by 2drfischer@gmail.c
I'm still wondering just what Huntington and his crew were good at.

Another pitcher questions development under NH regime.

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:22 pm
by DemDog
1D4B5D49465C4C474A5D6F48424E4643014C2F0 wrote: I'm still wondering just what Huntington and his crew were good at.


Wasting what little money BN gave them.

Another pitcher questions development under NH regime.

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:25 pm
by Bobster21
752335212E34242F223507202A262E2B6924470 wrote: I'm still wondering just what Huntington and his crew were good at.
I thought he was very good at pretending everything was going well and putting a positive spin on everything they did.

Another pitcher questions development under NH regime.

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:30 pm
by ArnoldRothstein
Four years in NH's system: 18-10, 2.87, 188 IP, 164 H, 63 BB, 196 K.

Another pitcher questions development under NH regime.

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:05 pm
by Bobster21
70435F5E5D55635E4559424554585F310 wrote: Four years in NH's system: 18-10, 2.87, 188 IP,  164 H, 63 BB, 196 K.
Yeah, that's an interesting point. It's not like Hartlieb was failing in the minors.



However, look at Glasnow's minor league stats in NH's system: 45-21. 2.01. 595.2 IP, 356 H, 281 BB, 788 K.

Gerrit Cole's minor league stats under NH: 17-11, 2.66, 230.1 IP, 182 H, 78 BB, 211 K.



Minor leaguers couldn't touch Glasnow and didn't do much better against Cole. But Glasnow's stuff didn't play at the MLB level under the Pirates' way of doing things. And Cole only had 1 outstanding season with the Bucs. So maybe Hartlieb, if not others in the system, worry that the coaching they got in the minors that worked there will not work against a better caliber of hitters.

Another pitcher questions development under NH regime.

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:11 pm
by Ecbucs
I don't know if players realize how critical of previous regime comments like this are.



I don't know that they intend them that way. They notice that things are being done differently.



The same thing happened when NH came on board with new staff.



However, I remember very clearly that Brian Graham had talked about how the team had a plan and evaluation of each player and how they went over that with the player each year (perhaps more). That is probably pretty standard operating procedure in player development.



Things break down along the way but it isn't like one group is just flying by the seat of its pants. Perhaps Hartlieb and staff had to see how ineffective his 4 seamer was before eliminating it.

Another pitcher questions development under NH regime.

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:46 pm
by ArnoldRothstein
Who is the universe of pitchers who have left and rapidly turned it around? Anyone beyond Cole, Glasnow, and Morton?



It seems there's quite an upper boundary this year, with Taillon, Musgrove, Archer, Williams all heading to contenders. A couple of them could float big W-L records even if they don't pitch particularly well.

Another pitcher questions development under NH regime.

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:25 pm
by shedman
This looks like a thread to pile on Huntington yet give Cherington a pass.

Another pitcher questions development under NH regime.

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:44 pm
by 2drfischer@gmail.c
59424F4E474B442A0 wrote: This looks like a thread to pile on Huntington yet give Cherington a pass.


::)