OnlyBucs

765B56474051460605340 wrote: Seeing how we rarely hear factual rumors about the Pirates since they are usually tight lipped, the new MLBTR post says Yanks and Bucs are talking Frazier and a young pitcher.  With this rumor, I'd say one of the rumor mill is perhaps the Yanks trying to put pressure on them to get a deal done.  I for one don't care what direction they go, I just want one to be picked.  If they trade Cole, they gotta tear it down unless they get someone back that can come close to his production.
I don't agree that trading Cole should signal a total rebuild. His last 2 years have not been good. I know there were injury issues in 2016 but in 2017 he gave up 31 HRs and his ERA was worse than Williams and Nova and not much better than Kuhl or Taillon. If the younger pitchers continue to progress and Cole stays the same or gets worse, he could be their 4th or 5th best starter. I don't see trading him as all that bad. Hopefully, his name recognition and previous effectiveness (that ended in 2015) will bring a better return than he's probably worth. If they can get a decent return for him while the other pitchers are as good or better, than it's a win-win.




Yeah I think it could go both ways--if a cole trade strengthens hitting at the expense of (potential) pitching I could see it improving this year's team. Improve it enough? I don't know.

5C575F5356574C090F784159505757165B57380 wrote: You have a bunch of double talk here:



Let me paraphrase for you:  Cole stinks, but Huntington better get a great return for him.  So, if Huntington doesn't get a great return or maximize you will be down on Huntington, right? 



Yes, your labeling of pitchers doesn't make sense.  You think Cole is worth a #4 return from the Yankees (you laughed at Frazier earlier until someone else agreed with me... ha ha).  Does that mean Cole is worth the Padres #1 prospect or the Reds #1 prospect if he went there since he would be their top pitcher?


I never said he stinks.  I said he is grossly overrated by people, including you.  Cole is a #4 for the Yanks.  He is a two or 3 for most teams.  He is a #1 for a few, but isn't considered an ace by any stretch. He isn't better than Gray, Tanaka or Severino.  However, he is the biggest piece NH has to deal.  I truly think you need a reality check on things.



I never laughed at Frazier.  He is a spare part for the Yanks right now, but still holds value.



You think Cole has been good the last two years? Be careful how you answer this and don't make excuses. Again, if some idiot GM wants to overpay and give the Pirates their top three prospects, more power to them. I don't think he is worth a package of Frazier, Adams and Andujar. Neither do the people on MLB radio. Jim Bowden thinks Cole is an underachiever.

7060615640404C230 wrote: You have a bunch of double talk here:



Let me paraphrase for you:  Cole stinks, but Huntington better get a great return for him.  So, if Huntington doesn't get a great return or maximize you will be down on Huntington, right? 



Yes, your labeling of pitchers doesn't make sense.  You think Cole is worth a #4 return from the Yankees (you laughed at Frazier earlier until someone else agreed with me... ha ha).  Does that mean Cole is worth the Padres #1 prospect or the Reds #1 prospect if he went there since he would be their top pitcher?


I never said he stinks.  I said he is grossly overrated by people, including you.  Cole is a #4 for the Yanks.  He is a two or 3 for most teams.  He is a #1 for a few, but isn't considered an ace by any stretch. He isn't better than Gray, Tanaka or Severino.  However, he is the biggest piece NH has to deal.  I truly think you need a reality check on things.



I never laughed at Frazier.  He is a spare part for the Yanks right now, but still holds value.



You think Cole has been good the last two years?  Be careful how you answer this and don't make excuses.  Again, if some idiot GM wants to overpay and give the Pirates their top three prospects, more power to them.  I don't think he is worth a package of Frazier, Adams and Andujar.  Neither do the people on MLB radio.  Jim Bowden thinks Cole is an underachiever.


I never said Cole was this great pitcher, I just understand his market value. My stance hasn't changed. Yours sure has:



Dec 12th at 12:07 you said:



"I'm trying to figure out why the Yanks would covet Cole. He would be their #4 at best. They aren't handing over Frazier for a #4."



Dec 12th at 12:47 you then said:



"They ain't giving up a prime prospect like Frazier for a #4. It's silly to think they would. Give me two of the following three ... Acevado, Andujar and Florial."



Dec 15th at 11:05 you said:



"If there is a prospect absent Torres that the Yanks want to keep, its Andujar. They have a third base issue too. He can play third."





I don't need a reality check. You need to make up your mind.