2024 Off-Season Thread

[Ecbucs]

here is Nutting:

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=66e661c1 ... wNDM&ntb=1

[Babe Adams]

We should all be used to this. For the past 10 years we've been told that the goal is to get better, to win. And yet in each offseason, the team made little to no attempt to do so. They're lying liars who lie.

I think they really are trying to win. They're just focused on improvement from guys like Henry Davis, Suwinski, and Hayes more than veterans. Again, they seem to have this five-year or so plan that begins with a young group like McCutchen-Walker-Marte. If that group doesn't come together, the plan just defaults back to Step 1: trade everything of value for young players. They've just been impossibly bad at getting that group together.

[JollyRoger8]

Rumors are surfacing of a possible Luis Roberts trade.
The Reds and White Sox could not agree on the details and how much money if any the White Sox would absorb.
There are a couple of articles stating the Pirates may be a mystery team in the Roberts sweepstakes and they have the players to pull it off. Roberts will be owed $15M this year and he has 2 club options of $20M each which is reasonable by today’s standards. The downside is that Roberts has only had one season that has played over 100 games.
The 2 trade proposals that were mentioned are:
Roberts and cash for Harrington, Temarr Johnson, Kristian Curtis
Roberts and cash for Harrington, Blanco, Levi S.
I would do either one of those trades

[Surgnbuck]

They got "mystery team" down for sure. The Pirates have been a complete mystery this offseason.

[Ecbucs]

We should all be used to this. For the past 10 years we've been told that the goal is to get better, to win. And yet in each offseason, the team made little to no attempt to do so. They're lying liars who lie.

I think they really are trying to win. They're just focused on improvement from guys like Henry Davis, Suwinski, and Hayes more than veterans. Again, they seem to have this five-year or so plan that begins with a young group like McCutchen-Walker-Marte. If that group doesn't come together, the plan just defaults back to Step 1: trade everything of value for young players. They've just been impossibly bad at getting that group together.

Trying to win with only one approach that hasn't worked very often is the same as not trying very hard.

[Doc]

We should all be used to this. For the past 10 years we've been told that the goal is to get better, to win. And yet in each offseason, the team made little to no attempt to do so. They're lying liars who lie.

I think they really are trying to win. They're just focused on improvement from guys like Henry Davis, Suwinski, and Hayes more than veterans. Again, they seem to have this five-year or so plan that begins with a young group like McCutchen-Walker-Marte. If that group doesn't come together, the plan just defaults back to Step 1: trade everything of value for young players. They've just been impossibly bad at getting that group together.

I think the players and coaches are trying to win but I can't say that the owner is. He's not giving his baseball management staff the opportunities necessary to put capable players on the field. Their inabilities to identify amateur talent, to develop players into successful big leaguers, and to make winning trades are the direct result of his decisions. I believe his lack of putting winning ahead of all else is the direct result of the organization's deficiencies.

Few organizations of any kind can succeed without a determined leader at the top. The trouble is, he's determined to profit first while the others in the organization are trying to win first. The two objectives aren't compatible.

I've said before that I focus my anger on Nutting more than I should. It's the way the owners, together, run the sport that's the problem. They allow, for their own greedy purposes, an owner like Nutting to operate his franchise the way he does. Until they change, and they won't, it'll remain as is.

[Ecbucs]

We should all be used to this. For the past 10 years we've been told that the goal is to get better, to win. And yet in each offseason, the team made little to no attempt to do so. They're lying liars who lie.

I think they really are trying to win. They're just focused on improvement from guys like Henry Davis, Suwinski, and Hayes more than veterans. Again, they seem to have this five-year or so plan that begins with a young group like McCutchen-Walker-Marte. If that group doesn't come together, the plan just defaults back to Step 1: trade everything of value for young players. They've just been impossibly bad at getting that group together.

I think the players and coaches are trying to win but I can't say that the owner is. He's not giving his baseball management staff the opportunities necessary to put capable players on the field. Their inabilities to identify amateur talent, to develop players into successful big leaguers, and to make winning trades are the direct result of his decisions. I believe his lack of putting winning ahead of all else is the direct result of the organization's deficiencies.

Few organizations of any kind can succeed without a determined leader at the top. The trouble is, he's determined to profit first while the others in the organization are trying to win first. The two objectives aren't compatible.

I've said before that I focus my anger on Nutting more than I should. It's the way the owners, together, run the sport that's the problem. They allow, for their own greedy purposes, an owner like Nutting to operate his franchise the way he does. Until they change, and they won't, it'll remain as is.

why should the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox etc. want the Pirates to do better? It just makes it harder for them to win. the Pirates are like the Washington Generals who can never beat the Globetrotters.

[Doc]

I think they really are trying to win. They're just focused on improvement from guys like Henry Davis, Suwinski, and Hayes more than veterans. Again, they seem to have this five-year or so plan that begins with a young group like McCutchen-Walker-Marte. If that group doesn't come together, the plan just defaults back to Step 1: trade everything of value for young players. They've just been impossibly bad at getting that group together.

I think the players and coaches are trying to win but I can't say that the owner is. He's not giving his baseball management staff the opportunities necessary to put capable players on the field. Their inabilities to identify amateur talent, to develop players into successful big leaguers, and to make winning trades are the direct result of his decisions. I believe his lack of putting winning ahead of all else is the direct result of the organization's deficiencies.

Few organizations of any kind can succeed without a determined leader at the top. The trouble is, he's determined to profit first while the others in the organization are trying to win first. The two objectives aren't compatible.

I've said before that I focus my anger on Nutting more than I should. It's the way the owners, together, run the sport that's the problem. They allow, for their own greedy purposes, an owner like Nutting to operate his franchise the way he does. Until they change, and they won't, it'll remain as is.

why should the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox etc. want the Pirates to do better? It just makes it harder for them to win. the Pirates are like the Washington Generals who can never beat the Globetrotters.

Exactly. The Pirates help fill out the schedule for the big market clubs. The owners of those teams, in return, share money with the small market teams to keep them afloat. And at the same time, the small markets don’t stand in the way of winning a title. Everyone makes money, with about 8-10 of the clubs not having to try or take risks. The big losers are the fans in the small markets. And we haven’t even mentioned the potential loss of revenues and taxes the smaller market cities lose because baseball attendance numbers are lower than they might be if MLB were truly competitive.

[fjk090852-7]

We are 10 days until pitchers and catchers report to Bradenton, and I have to say this is the worst offseason in years. Last year entering ST we had Chapman, and the excitement of Paul Skenes joining the team sometime in 2024. The return of Cutch for the 2023 season was something to look forward to, as well as a lot of speculation as to who the Pirates would pick #1 in the July Draft. This offseason has been blah! Hey we are bringing back Adam Frazier who hit .202 in 2024. Our payroll at this point is lower than the payroll at the end of last season. What the heck is going on? Why aren’t the Pirates taking advantage of a young impressive starting pitching staff which makes peanuts when compared to veteran pitchers who are not as good, but make millions? Sure our friggin owner is a cheap so and so, but why not spend another 10 million or so, in order that payroll would be similar to the end of year 2024 ? The Pirates have a chance to be the top dog in the city since the Pens, and Steelers have had issues winning. I know baseball’s financial structure is out of control, but it would be sure good if the Pirates had an owner who cared a little about winning, rather than the bottom line.

[3pirates3]

https://www.mlb.com/news/jack-flaherty- ... 5-contract