OnlyBucs

5C4C4D7A6C6C600F0 wrote: I don't think any of us are in too much disagreement here.  Failure to trade prospects to bolster the roster while our window was most open, has got to be my biggest frustration.



My point on Meadows specifically is, I don't feel he has lost any more of his luster due to a bad hamstring, than Taillon did when he had TJS.  If you miss games and can't consistently produce, your status will fall.  Those are exactly the type scenarios good GMs should be looking for.  On the flip side, it seems that is all our GM looks for.



I am not necessarily against trading Meadows, but I would not do it just because he had a troublesome hamstring.






Your first graph is exactly true.  The window was open for three years and this organization failed miserably for recognizing it and building upon the momentum.  Now we see a decline.  The owner is punishing the franchise because attendance is down.  Its a two way street Bob.  Attendance is down because you aren't spending $$ on the product.


The three year opportunity stings really bad. But last winter was even more frustrating to me. To see a floundering organization do nothing, waste still valuable players for no reason....man, it made me want to scream.



Nicaso was not the only blunder. He more or less represented the organization's entire approach. Neal's running the team like the Pirates tend to play defense or run the bases: unexplainable.

4F485E56584F08047D5A505C5451135E52503D0 wrote: I don't think any of us are in too much disagreement here.  Failure to trade prospects to bolster the roster while our window was most open, has got to be my biggest frustration.



My point on Meadows specifically is, I don't feel he has lost any more of his luster due to a bad hamstring, than Taillon did when he had TJS.  If you miss games and can't consistently produce, your status will fall.  Those are exactly the type scenarios good GMs should be looking for.  On the flip side, it seems that is all our GM looks for.



I am not necessarily against trading Meadows, but I would not do it just because he had a troublesome hamstring.






Your first graph is exactly true.  The window was open for three years and this organization failed miserably for recognizing it and building upon the momentum.  Now we see a decline.  The owner is punishing the franchise because attendance is down.  Its a two way street Bob.  Attendance is down because you aren't spending $$ on the product.


The three year opportunity stings really bad. But last winter was even more frustrating to me.  To see a floundering organization do nothing, waste still valuable players for no reason....man, it made me want to scream. 



Nicaso was not the only blunder.  He more or less represented the organization's entire approach.  Neal's running the team like the Pirates tend to play defense or run the bases: unexplainable.






I thought two seasons ago was when we should have really made a move. The SP from last year was the bigger hole but the team wasn't as good either.

586A66667240636A67626D6A0B0 wrote: I don't think any of us are in too much disagreement here.  Failure to trade prospects to bolster the roster while our window was most open, has got to be my biggest frustration.



My point on Meadows specifically is, I don't feel he has lost any more of his luster due to a bad hamstring, than Taillon did when he had TJS.  If you miss games and can't consistently produce, your status will fall.  Those are exactly the type scenarios good GMs should be looking for.  On the flip side, it seems that is all our GM looks for.



I am not necessarily against trading Meadows, but I would not do it just because he had a troublesome hamstring.






Your first graph is exactly true.  The window was open for three years and this organization failed miserably for recognizing it and building upon the momentum.  Now we see a decline.  The owner is punishing the franchise because attendance is down.  Its a two way street Bob.  Attendance is down because you aren't spending $$ on the product.


The three year opportunity stings really bad. But last winter was even more frustrating to me.  To see a floundering organization do nothing, waste still valuable players for no reason....man, it made me want to scream. 



Nicaso was not the only blunder.  He more or less represented the organization's entire approach.  Neal's running the team like the Pirates tend to play defense or run the bases: unexplainable.






I thought two seasons ago was when we should have really made a move.  The SP from last year was the bigger hole but the team wasn't as good either.


Yes two years ago was when there should've been a move made for sure.

696E78707E692E225B7C767A7277357874761B0 wrote: I don't think any of us are in too much disagreement here.  Failure to trade prospects to bolster the roster while our window was most open, has got to be my biggest frustration.



My point on Meadows specifically is, I don't feel he has lost any more of his luster due to a bad hamstring, than Taillon did when he had TJS.  If you miss games and can't consistently produce, your status will fall.  Those are exactly the type scenarios good GMs should be looking for.  On the flip side, it seems that is all our GM looks for.



I am not necessarily against trading Meadows, but I would not do it just because he had a troublesome hamstring.






Your first graph is exactly true.  The window was open for three years and this organization failed miserably for recognizing it and building upon the momentum.  Now we see a decline.  The owner is punishing the franchise because attendance is down.  Its a two way street Bob.  Attendance is down because you aren't spending $$ on the product.


The three year opportunity stings really bad. But last winter was even more frustrating to me.  To see a floundering organization do nothing, waste still valuable players for no reason....man, it made me want to scream. 



Nicaso was not the only blunder.  He more or less represented the organization's entire approach.  Neal's running the team like the Pirates tend to play defense or run the bases: unexplainable.






They didn't reinvest the $$$ used on Kang last year. They didn't reinvest the money on Marte last year during his suspension. The Nicasio things sounds inconsequential to people like Dog, but they failed to deal him. NH said he didn't get excited on any offer. He overvalues people to death (Cutch example with Washington last year). But yet, he waives him to save 600K instead of dealing him for what could be a good return in the future?



There are many blunders.

Huntington doesn't believe in "windows of opportunity". He needs to change that thinking. Especially, watching the Indians, Astros, and Royals the last few years.

I see where the Rays just traded a player for international bonus pool money.



Exactly when is NH actually going to try and get some value from the extra bonus pool money that the team has that could soon become a non-fungible asset?



Also --- in looking at the contracts that middling relievers are receiving, Cole and Rivero should be good trade chips (return real talent). Also, perhaps there could be a buyer for Nova as an inning eater.

3A3D2B232D3A7D71082F25292124662B2725480 wrote: Seriously - I'm seeing years of losing in front of us.  Neal clearly has no plan. 



If there is no significant upgrade to this team, then 2017 was a total waste - if there was never a plan to equip the team to contend then 2017 was simply depreciation of what little assets the Pirates have. Every valuable piece on the Pirates roster is materially less valuable this winter than last year this time: Cole, Cutch, Marte, Polanco, Glasgow, Meadows.  Bell is probably the only truly elite player in the roster. 



Last winter Neal was faced with the identical problem he has now with respect to the major league team: he needed to up grade and failing that he needed to move valuable assets to rebuild. Once it became clear there  would be no upgrade Neal needed to manage his assets for their best possible return - Cole and one or two outfielders needed to be moved.  Instead Neal wastes all of 2017 and now Cole, Marte etc have much less value.



Point: if Neal lacks even basic assets to add to the team, then he must be excellent at moving assets. He's unwilling to make any trades of a significant value.  M


There hasn't been a plan with this organization outside of losing for a while. It started with Littlefield and NH has it now, absent three years. There is no plan in place to get better. You are right, Bell is the only player who is trending up. All those values of players you mentioned are down for whatever reason between declining status, enigma, being fragile/injury prone or PED use. Cole still might have heavy value despite his downward trend due to he is a pitcher.



The fact that NH is probably trading Harrison, who is probably the most valuable or versatile player absent Bell, shows there isn't a plan to upgrade. Last time I checked, we have a mess at third and Harrison can play there too. Instead, trade him and either give job to Osuna who hasn't played there, or Freese or SRod, or someone else that doesn't really solve the problem.

446860676C4B7C6A7A090 wrote: I see where the Rays just traded a player for international bonus pool money. 



Exactly when is NH actually going to try and get some value from the extra bonus pool money that the team has that could soon become a non-fungible asset?



Also --- in looking at the contracts that middling relievers are receiving, Cole and Rivero should be good trade chips (return real talent).  Also, perhaps there could be a buyer for Nova as an inning eater. 






I'm really starting to wonder what the market would be for Rivero.  The numbers we have seen on relievers thus far is astronomical.  Colorado might have close to $100m invested in three relievers.



I laugh at the Marlins all the time when they go full rebuild.  But now, they are smart. We need to rebuild because this roster isn't close to being a playoff contender.

I see Ozuna is going to the Cards, so they've gotten the bat they wanted. I haven't seen any Pirate activity. Is it too late to add 'No one gets traded and NH has nice vacation' to the poll?

76746E687E1B0 wrote: I see Ozuna is going to the Cards, so they've gotten the bat they wanted. I haven't seen any Pirate activity. Is it too late to add 'No one gets traded and NH has nice vacation' to the poll?




We claimed that guy off waivers from Philly who was claimed off waivers from the Twins the month before ... or was that before the meetings?