No, he (they) are being rewarded for their whole body of work. Not just the last two seasons.
Hurdle has a winning record as a Pirates manager. Even with all of these bad, cheap teams.
Why can't they do it again? Do you think the team is in worse shape now compared to when Huntington took over or when Hurdle was hired?
They need to improve for sure. Huntington needs to draft better. That's my biggest issue right now with Huntington. Hurdle needs to think out of the box some. He needs to go back to some old school managing in my opinion. They can do this. Just like they did before.
Hurdle-4 more years!
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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johnfluharty
Hurdle-4 more years!
467478786C5E7D74797C7374150 wrote: They had 67 win in 2008, 62 wins in 2009, 57 wins in 2010. Then they started to win games. 72 in 2011, 79 in 2012, 94 in 2013.
They are on pace for the pretty much the same record as last year too. Their attendance this year will probably be in their top ten of all time in their 135 year history.
The good has outweighed the bad in my opinion. I have hope they can turn this around like they did before. I look at the whole body of work and not just the last two years.
I'm generally positive but some moves (or lack thereof) of the past few years have been unsettling. I don't think they're fire-able issues, but at the same time the extension is a year or two too long for me.
I think you and I are on the same page. I don't mind seeing if they can get us back to winning, but four years seemed excessive. Two years would have been more comfortable for me.
They are on pace for the pretty much the same record as last year too. Their attendance this year will probably be in their top ten of all time in their 135 year history.
The good has outweighed the bad in my opinion. I have hope they can turn this around like they did before. I look at the whole body of work and not just the last two years.
I'm generally positive but some moves (or lack thereof) of the past few years have been unsettling. I don't think they're fire-able issues, but at the same time the extension is a year or two too long for me.
I think you and I are on the same page. I don't mind seeing if they can get us back to winning, but four years seemed excessive. Two years would have been more comfortable for me.
Hurdle-4 more years!
3A3F383E363C253831222429500 wrote: They had 67 win in 2008, 62 wins in 2009, 57 wins in 2010. Then they started to win games. 72 in 2011, 79 in 2012, 94 in 2013.
They are on pace for the pretty much the same record as last year too. Their attendance this year will probably be in their top ten of all time in their 135 year history.
The good has outweighed the bad in my opinion. I have hope they can turn this around like they did before. I look at the whole body of work and not just the last two years.
I'm generally positive but some moves (or lack thereof) of the past few years have been unsettling. I don't think they're fire-able issues, but at the same time the extension is a year or two too long for me.
I think you and I are on the same page. I don't mind seeing if they can get us back to winning, but four years seemed excessive. Two years would have been more comfortable for me.
I would definitely rather replace than add 4 years. partially this is because I don't think next year's team is going to be much better, if any than this years. Three winning years are great and management deserves credit for that. But they get cancelled out by losing afterwards.
It is not like the 1992 team where many players were gone for 1993. (Drabek, Bonds, Lind, Jackson) because of money.
If you think the team can get back to 2015-2016 levels in 2018 then extending makes sense to me.
I don't even think they will try to do it.
They are on pace for the pretty much the same record as last year too. Their attendance this year will probably be in their top ten of all time in their 135 year history.
The good has outweighed the bad in my opinion. I have hope they can turn this around like they did before. I look at the whole body of work and not just the last two years.
I'm generally positive but some moves (or lack thereof) of the past few years have been unsettling. I don't think they're fire-able issues, but at the same time the extension is a year or two too long for me.
I think you and I are on the same page. I don't mind seeing if they can get us back to winning, but four years seemed excessive. Two years would have been more comfortable for me.
I would definitely rather replace than add 4 years. partially this is because I don't think next year's team is going to be much better, if any than this years. Three winning years are great and management deserves credit for that. But they get cancelled out by losing afterwards.
It is not like the 1992 team where many players were gone for 1993. (Drabek, Bonds, Lind, Jackson) because of money.
If you think the team can get back to 2015-2016 levels in 2018 then extending makes sense to me.
I don't even think they will try to do it.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Hurdle-4 more years!
How many games of a difference do you think a full season of Kang and Marte would have made?
Does this even factor in people's reasoning? A ten game difference has them leading the division. A fifteen game difference has them amongst the best in the league. A five game difference has them a few games back.
Does this even factor in people's reasoning? A ten game difference has them leading the division. A fifteen game difference has them amongst the best in the league. A five game difference has them a few games back.
Hurdle-4 more years!
212A222E2B2A317472053C242D2A2A6B262A450 wrote: How many games of a difference do you think a full season of Kang and Marte would have made?
Does this even factor in people's reasoning? A ten game difference has them leading the division. A fifteen game difference has them amongst the best in the league. A five game difference has them a few games back.
depends, in a vacuum it may mean a few more wins, but if you give every other team a chance to get players back it may not matter much.
Does this even factor in people's reasoning? A ten game difference has them leading the division. A fifteen game difference has them amongst the best in the league. A five game difference has them a few games back.
depends, in a vacuum it may mean a few more wins, but if you give every other team a chance to get players back it may not matter much.
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OrlandoMerced
Hurdle-4 more years!
767D75797C7D662325526B737A7D7D3C717D120 wrote: No, he (they) are being rewarded for their whole body of work. Not just the last two seasons.
Hurdle has a winning record as a Pirates manager. Even with all of these bad, cheap teams.
Why can't they do it again? Do you think the team is in worse shape now compared to when Huntington took over or when Hurdle was hired?
They need to improve for sure. Huntington needs to draft better. That's my biggest issue right now with Huntington. Hurdle needs to think out of the box some. He needs to go back to some old school managing in my opinion. They can do this. Just like they did before.
I understand that "NH needs to draft better" is a pretty unobjectionable statement. But I don't think it's a fair assessment. I think his success rate for 1st round picks is probably above average even accounting for draft position. He didn't always make the optimal pick, that's impossible, but ATM, Sanchez and McGuire are his only busts.
Hurdle has a winning record as a Pirates manager. Even with all of these bad, cheap teams.
Why can't they do it again? Do you think the team is in worse shape now compared to when Huntington took over or when Hurdle was hired?
They need to improve for sure. Huntington needs to draft better. That's my biggest issue right now with Huntington. Hurdle needs to think out of the box some. He needs to go back to some old school managing in my opinion. They can do this. Just like they did before.
I understand that "NH needs to draft better" is a pretty unobjectionable statement. But I don't think it's a fair assessment. I think his success rate for 1st round picks is probably above average even accounting for draft position. He didn't always make the optimal pick, that's impossible, but ATM, Sanchez and McGuire are his only busts.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Hurdle-4 more years!
58657B767973785A7265747273170 wrote: No, he (they) are being rewarded for their whole body of work. Not just the last two seasons.
Hurdle has a winning record as a Pirates manager. Even with all of these bad, cheap teams.
Why can't they do it again? Do you think the team is in worse shape now compared to when Huntington took over or when Hurdle was hired?
They need to improve for sure. Huntington needs to draft better. That's my biggest issue right now with Huntington. Hurdle needs to think out of the box some. He needs to go back to some old school managing in my opinion. They can do this. Just like they did before.
I understand that "NH needs to draft better" is a pretty unobjectionable statement. But I don't think it's a fair assessment. I think his success rate for 1st round picks is probably above average even accounting for draft position. He didn't always make the optimal pick, that's impossible, but ATM, Sanchez and McGuire are his only busts.
How about past the first round though? There are entire draft classes that have produced absolutely nothing.
Hurdle has a winning record as a Pirates manager. Even with all of these bad, cheap teams.
Why can't they do it again? Do you think the team is in worse shape now compared to when Huntington took over or when Hurdle was hired?
They need to improve for sure. Huntington needs to draft better. That's my biggest issue right now with Huntington. Hurdle needs to think out of the box some. He needs to go back to some old school managing in my opinion. They can do this. Just like they did before.
I understand that "NH needs to draft better" is a pretty unobjectionable statement. But I don't think it's a fair assessment. I think his success rate for 1st round picks is probably above average even accounting for draft position. He didn't always make the optimal pick, that's impossible, but ATM, Sanchez and McGuire are his only busts.
How about past the first round though? There are entire draft classes that have produced absolutely nothing.
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OrlandoMerced
Hurdle-4 more years!
40727E7E6A587B727F7A7572130 wrote: No, he (they) are being rewarded for their whole body of work. Not just the last two seasons.
Hurdle has a winning record as a Pirates manager. Even with all of these bad, cheap teams.
Why can't they do it again? Do you think the team is in worse shape now compared to when Huntington took over or when Hurdle was hired?
They need to improve for sure. Huntington needs to draft better. That's my biggest issue right now with Huntington. Hurdle needs to think out of the box some. He needs to go back to some old school managing in my opinion. They can do this. Just like they did before.
I understand that "NH needs to draft better" is a pretty unobjectionable statement. But I don't think it's a fair assessment. I think his success rate for 1st round picks is probably above average even accounting for draft position. He didn't always make the optimal pick, that's impossible, but ATM, Sanchez and McGuire are his only busts.
How about past the first round though? There are entire draft classes that have produced absolutely nothing.
Past the first round? Bell, Kingham, Glasnow, Kuhl, Keller, Moroff. That's a lot.
There are like 40 rounds in the MLB draft and a devoted period to signing international players. The MLB roster has 25 players, it is very common for an MLB team's draft class to produce nothing.
Hurdle has a winning record as a Pirates manager. Even with all of these bad, cheap teams.
Why can't they do it again? Do you think the team is in worse shape now compared to when Huntington took over or when Hurdle was hired?
They need to improve for sure. Huntington needs to draft better. That's my biggest issue right now with Huntington. Hurdle needs to think out of the box some. He needs to go back to some old school managing in my opinion. They can do this. Just like they did before.
I understand that "NH needs to draft better" is a pretty unobjectionable statement. But I don't think it's a fair assessment. I think his success rate for 1st round picks is probably above average even accounting for draft position. He didn't always make the optimal pick, that's impossible, but ATM, Sanchez and McGuire are his only busts.
How about past the first round though? There are entire draft classes that have produced absolutely nothing.
Past the first round? Bell, Kingham, Glasnow, Kuhl, Keller, Moroff. That's a lot.
There are like 40 rounds in the MLB draft and a devoted period to signing international players. The MLB roster has 25 players, it is very common for an MLB team's draft class to produce nothing.
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Bobster21
Hurdle-4 more years!
704D535E515B50725A4D5C5A5B3F0 wrote: No, he (they) are being rewarded for their whole body of work. Not just the last two seasons.
Hurdle has a winning record as a Pirates manager. Even with all of these bad, cheap teams.
Why can't they do it again? Do you think the team is in worse shape now compared to when Huntington took over or when Hurdle was hired?
They need to improve for sure. Huntington needs to draft better. That's my biggest issue right now with Huntington. Hurdle needs to think out of the box some. He needs to go back to some old school managing in my opinion. They can do this. Just like they did before.
I understand that "NH needs to draft better" is a pretty unobjectionable statement. But I don't think it's a fair assessment. I think his success rate for 1st round picks is probably above average even accounting for draft position. He didn't always make the optimal pick, that's impossible, but ATM, Sanchez and McGuire are his only busts.
Who is ATM? And I'd say Connor Joe is looking more like a 1st rd bust than McGuire. McGuire missed a lot of time this year but has had a good season in AA.
Hurdle has a winning record as a Pirates manager. Even with all of these bad, cheap teams.
Why can't they do it again? Do you think the team is in worse shape now compared to when Huntington took over or when Hurdle was hired?
They need to improve for sure. Huntington needs to draft better. That's my biggest issue right now with Huntington. Hurdle needs to think out of the box some. He needs to go back to some old school managing in my opinion. They can do this. Just like they did before.
I understand that "NH needs to draft better" is a pretty unobjectionable statement. But I don't think it's a fair assessment. I think his success rate for 1st round picks is probably above average even accounting for draft position. He didn't always make the optimal pick, that's impossible, but ATM, Sanchez and McGuire are his only busts.
Who is ATM? And I'd say Connor Joe is looking more like a 1st rd bust than McGuire. McGuire missed a lot of time this year but has had a good season in AA.
Hurdle-4 more years!
7A4759545B515A785047565051350 wrote: No, he (they) are being rewarded for their whole body of work. Not just the last two seasons.
Hurdle has a winning record as a Pirates manager. Even with all of these bad, cheap teams.
Why can't they do it again? Do you think the team is in worse shape now compared to when Huntington took over or when Hurdle was hired?
They need to improve for sure. Huntington needs to draft better. That's my biggest issue right now with Huntington. Hurdle needs to think out of the box some. He needs to go back to some old school managing in my opinion. They can do this. Just like they did before.
I understand that "NH needs to draft better" is a pretty unobjectionable statement. But I don't think it's a fair assessment. I think his success rate for 1st round picks is probably above average even accounting for draft position. He didn't always make the optimal pick, that's impossible, but ATM, Sanchez and McGuire are his only busts.
How about past the first round though? There are entire draft classes that have produced absolutely nothing.
Past the first round? Bell, Kingham, Glasnow, Kuhl, Keller, Moroff. That's a lot.
There are like 40 rounds in the MLB draft and a devoted period to signing international players. The MLB roster has 25 players, it is very common for an MLB team's draft class to produce nothing.
I think Bell, Glasnow and Kingham (not sure about the others) dropped because of signability questions. The Pirates offered all of them big bonuses that are no longer permitted in the slotting system.
So that's a strategy no longer available to the team.
Hurdle has a winning record as a Pirates manager. Even with all of these bad, cheap teams.
Why can't they do it again? Do you think the team is in worse shape now compared to when Huntington took over or when Hurdle was hired?
They need to improve for sure. Huntington needs to draft better. That's my biggest issue right now with Huntington. Hurdle needs to think out of the box some. He needs to go back to some old school managing in my opinion. They can do this. Just like they did before.
I understand that "NH needs to draft better" is a pretty unobjectionable statement. But I don't think it's a fair assessment. I think his success rate for 1st round picks is probably above average even accounting for draft position. He didn't always make the optimal pick, that's impossible, but ATM, Sanchez and McGuire are his only busts.
How about past the first round though? There are entire draft classes that have produced absolutely nothing.
Past the first round? Bell, Kingham, Glasnow, Kuhl, Keller, Moroff. That's a lot.
There are like 40 rounds in the MLB draft and a devoted period to signing international players. The MLB roster has 25 players, it is very common for an MLB team's draft class to produce nothing.
I think Bell, Glasnow and Kingham (not sure about the others) dropped because of signability questions. The Pirates offered all of them big bonuses that are no longer permitted in the slotting system.
So that's a strategy no longer available to the team.