OnlyBucs

7B70787471706B2E285F667E777070317C701F0 wrote: I agree that Glasnow is not performing at the MLB level, but I never expected him to be a #3 in 2016 or 2017.  Nor did I think he was the key to the rotations.  I don't expect many 22 or 23 year olds to produce at that high of a level.  Glasnow was a 5th round pick.  The book is not over with him.  Hopefully, some expert can figure him out and help him. 


This is absolutely not true.  You repeatedly defended the Vogelsong, Locke rotation by saying it was just a bridge to Taillon and Glasnow being called up that season.   You said it over and over again.  It was you expectation that they would both slide right into the rotation and be effective.



(Almost) every Pirate fan on Earth was waiting for the news of a legit starting pitching acquisition when Charlie Morton was let go for nothing.   Waiting because it made sense to dump him and re-allocate his paycheck to whomever they were about to pick up.  The move never came and we rolled into opening day with a much worse pitching staff.



I'm not going to get frustrated about it.   The truth is the truth regardless of if it's recognized or not



And another thing... If there was a pirates fan alive that was calling for Locke to come back after he was gone, as you're claiming, I've yet to meet them or read their post about it

29202839374D0 wrote: I agree that Glasnow is not performing at the MLB level, but I never expected him to be a #3 in 2016 or 2017.  Nor did I think he was the key to the rotations.  I don't expect many 22 or 23 year olds to produce at that high of a level.  Glasnow was a 5th round pick.  The book is not over with him.  Hopefully, some expert can figure him out and help him. 


This is absolutely not true.  You repeatedly defended the Vogelsong, Locke rotation by saying it was just a bridge to Taillon and Glasnow being called up that season.   You said it over and over again.  It was you expectation that they would both slide right into the rotation and be effective.



(Almost) every Pirate fan on Earth was waiting for the news of a legit starting pitching acquisition when Charlie Morton was let go for nothing.   Waiting because it made sense to dump him and re-allocate his paycheck to whomever they were about to pick up.  The move never came and we rolled into opening day with a much worse pitching staff.



I'm not going to get frustrated about it.   The truth is the truth regardless of if it's recognized or not



And another thing... If there was a pirates fan alive that was calling for Locke to come back after he was gone, as you're claiming, I've yet to meet them or read their post about it




Something tells me you're not going to get a:



"Good post, Dmetz!"



Although it is, in fact, a good post.

2D242C3D33490 wrote: I agree that Glasnow is not performing at the MLB level, but I never expected him to be a #3 in 2016 or 2017.  Nor did I think he was the key to the rotations.  I don't expect many 22 or 23 year olds to produce at that high of a level.  Glasnow was a 5th round pick.  The book is not over with him.  Hopefully, some expert can figure him out and help him. 


This is absolutely not true.  You repeatedly defended the Vogelsong, Locke rotation by saying it was just a bridge to Taillon and Glasnow being called up that season.   You said it over and over again.  It was you expectation that they would both slide right into the rotation and be effective.



(Almost) every Pirate fan on Earth was waiting for the news of a legit starting pitching acquisition when Charlie Morton was let go for nothing.   Waiting because it made sense to dump him and re-allocate his paycheck to whomever they were about to pick up.  The move never came and we rolled into opening day with a much worse pitching staff.



I'm not going to get frustrated about it.   The truth is the truth regardless of if it's recognized or not



And another thing... If there was a pirates fan alive that was calling for Locke to come back after he was gone, as you're claiming, I've yet to meet them or read their post about it


Agreed. Fans seemed very relieved that ties were cut with Morton and hoped for the same with Locke. Those were the major weak links in the 2015 rotation, as they had been for years. Dog's spin contention that Vogelsong was acquired---not because of the small price tag for the apparently washed up 38-year old--but rather because they expected the same unsatisfactory performance that got Morton released is absurd. The goal should have been to improve the rotation. Not to repeat the worst performance but at a lower price.

4E4B4C4A4248514C4556505D240 wrote: Harrison, Rodriguez, Freese, Nova, and Hudson combine for $37M of our 2018 payroll.  I think that money could be better spent.  Even if you keep JHay at $10.25 we still have more than $26M that could be better spent. 






Agree on above think Harrison is the only one with value the rest are big waste of money so I don't feel sorry for Huntington, he's not spending money wisely. We have players in the minors who could replace these guys with simular results.

222B23323C460 wrote: I agree that Glasnow is not performing at the MLB level, but I never expected him to be a #3 in 2016 or 2017.  Nor did I think he was the key to the rotations.  I don't expect many 22 or 23 year olds to produce at that high of a level.  Glasnow was a 5th round pick.  The book is not over with him.  Hopefully, some expert can figure him out and help him. 


This is absolutely not true.  You repeatedly defended the Vogelsong, Locke rotation by saying it was just a bridge to Taillon and Glasnow being called up that season.   You said it over and over again.  It was you expectation that they would both slide right into the rotation and be effective.



(Almost) every Pirate fan on Earth was waiting for the news of a legit starting pitching acquisition when Charlie Morton was let go for nothing.   Waiting because it made sense to dump him and re-allocate his paycheck to whomever they were about to pick up.  The move never came and we rolled into opening day with a much worse pitching staff.



I'm not going to get frustrated about it.   The truth is the truth regardless of if it's recognized or not



And another thing... If there was a pirates fan alive that was calling for Locke to come back after he was gone, as you're claiming, I've yet to meet them or read their post about it




Not Glasnow. I never said that or thought that. Taillon was the big call up. Yes, I pointed that out many times. It wasn't Glasnow, it was Taillon.

Go back and look.  People thought that the only reason Glasnow and Taillon weren't on the roster was because they were waiting for super two or whatever.  Taillon people thought might be a tad longer except that he was just off injury.

05373B3B2F1D3E373A3F3037560 wrote: Go back and look.  People thought that the only reason Glasnow and Taillon weren't on the roster was because they were waiting for super two or whatever.  Taillon people thought might be a tad longer except that he was just off injury.


yeah, Glasnow had made a brief appearance in AAA in 2015 and it looked like if things worked out well he could get 8 or 10 starts at Indy and be ready.



It also looked liked the Pirates expected Taillon and Glasnow to be ready in 2016 or they would not have gambled so much on pitching staff.

4D7F73736755767F7277787F1E0 wrote: People thought that the only reason Glasnow and Taillon weren't on the roster was because they were waiting for super two or whatever.  Taillon people thought might be a tad longer except that he was just off injury.


I thought that they were being kept down for "seasoning," but yes, from the people they were bringing in it seemed that it must be the plan that Taillon and Glasnow would reach Pittsburgh between Super Two and the trade deadline, and push the others aside.  I guess that's one of the symptoms when management goes off the beam - the fans start looking at things from every conceivable angle until they finally come up with a plausible notion, however unlikely.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/03/ ... tes-7.html



Meanwhile, the 2016 team has more immediate issues, beginning with its rotation. The Pirates could have a very good group starting in the summer, when Tyler Glasnow and perhaps Jameson Taillon could arrive (with the Bucs likely delaying both promotions due not only to development reasons but to the Super Two threshold). But first the Pirates will have to get through the first couple months with at least one and perhaps two of Jeff Locke and Vogelsong in the rotation.


Basically we went into that offseason and replaced AJ/Happ with Jon Niese and Charlie Morton with the sound of chirping crickets.  If I recall it was late in the offseason before we even got Vogelsong.



I mean I was no real fan of Charlie Morton but he was better than a blank spot.



But that was going to be fine because Glasnow would be up soon and getting a starter for such a short amount of time would be a waste of resources.  Of course, we also had the typical chorus of armchair GMs that knew for a fact that Glasnow was ready immediately but would be kept down because the Nuttings are evil and cheap and kick puppies. 



Of course not only was Glasnow not fine but a whole avalanche of other bad things happened in the rotation as well.  Nobody could have predicted all of those things, but that doesn't mean that people should think that every best possible outcome would come to pass either.  And that's would have had to happen with an anticipated rotation of Cole, Liriano, Niese, Locke, and (I don't know, we'll come up with something as we go).

586A66667240636A67626D6A0B0 wrote: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/03/ ... tes-7.html



Meanwhile, the 2016 team has more immediate issues, beginning with its rotation. The Pirates could have a very good group starting in the summer, when Tyler Glasnow and perhaps Jameson Taillon could arrive (with the Bucs likely delaying both promotions due not only to development reasons but to the Super Two threshold). But first the Pirates will have to get through the first couple months with at least one and perhaps two of Jeff Locke and Vogelsong in the rotation.


Basically we went into that offseason and replaced AJ/Happ with Jon Niese and Charlie Morton with the sound of chirping crickets.  If I recall it was late in the offseason before we even got Vogelsong.



I mean I was no real fan of Charlie Morton but he was better than a blank spot. 



But that was going to be fine because Glasnow would be up soon and getting a starter for such a short amount of time would be a waste of resources.  Of course, we also had the typical chorus of armchair GMs that knew for a fact that Glasnow was ready immediately but would be kept down because the Nuttings are evil and cheap and kick puppies. 



Of course not only was Glasnow not fine but a whole avalanche of other bad things happened in the rotation as well.  Nobody could have predicted all of those things, but that doesn't mean that people should think that every best possible outcome would come to pass either.  And that's would have had to happen with an anticipated rotation of Cole, Liriano, Niese, Locke, and (I don't know, we'll come up with something as we go).


I recall a 2016 preseason article quoting NH as saying Vogelsong was expected to start and they expected midseason help from AAA, which meant Taillon and/or Glasnow. The problem is that they used that excuse for allowing the season to open with a weakened staff. In fact, Vogelsong was bad enough in ST that he lost his job to Nicasio. It would have made much more sense to acquire better starters because they didn't expect AAA til midseason. At worst, they would have had too much good pitching and could easily have found a midseason trade partner. As it turned out, Glasnow was never a factor in 2016 and by the time Taillon made his debut on 6/8, the Pirates were already 8.5 games behind.