OnlyBucs

0C233435233F2D25460 wrote: I actually felt bad watching Matt Cain pitch.  He just doesn't have it anymore.  He seemed to know it too.  Would the Giants cut him?  Does he even want to quit?  That $21 million a year is hard to turn down.  Makes you wonder what happened to him (and Tim Lincecum)?


Could be that they made their money and don't really care about competing anymore. Not everyone would be that way but a lot could.


I doubt it...to compete at the highest level of any sport requires a lot more than God-given ability. It requires a work ethic and dedication most people can't come close to. I suspect there are lots of people who have the natural ability to play at the highest level, but just didn't have the drive or dedication. I doubt someone with Matt Cain's ability and dedication would just suddenly become disinterested in the game.

476A67767160773734050 wrote: Cain went from 16-5, 2.79 ERA in 2012 to 8-10, 4.00 ERA in 2013. But WHIP was very good both years and into 2014. But had bone chips removed from his throwing elbow in 2014 when he made only 15 starts when he was 2-7, 4.18. It may be reasonable to assume the injury had contributed to his decline the year before. He began the 2015 season on the DL with a strained right flexor tendon. He made only 11 starts going 2-5 with a 5.79 ERA and an uncharacteristically high WHIP of 1.500. He had a cyst removed from his right arm in 2/16. He then had lower back and right hamstring injuries in 2016 as he made only 17 starts going 5-8 with a 5.64 ERA and 1.511 WHIP. Depending on whether the bone chips affected him in 2013, it's now been 4-5 years since he had a full healthy season and he's unlikely to pitch at 32 like he did at 27 or 28. Seems fair say injuries derailed his career more than his paycheck.


Injuries could be a big part of it (thanks for researching). And having the knowledge that at least couple of his generations of off spring are going to be financially set.



I work in a field where we see it. Highly motivated people can go a couple of different ways when they get even just $3 or $4 million dollars. Some people push for the next $, some shut it down and rest on their laurels...

Saw this in the Trib today about Marte's failure to score from 2B on a double. It's discouraging to hear Hurdle defend poor fundamentals and it's not the first time. Marte went back to tag at 2B in case the ball was caught. Had he been even a 3rd of the way to 3B he would have scored on the hit. Fortunately, he scored later anyway.



Hurdle OK with Marte's base-running



When Starling Marte held at third base on a first-inning double Monday by Josh Harrison, third-base coach Joey Cora immediately spent some time talking with the Pirates leadoff man.



Was he in trouble for not making it home on the drive to right-center?



As it turned out, he wasn't.



“You are looking at a guy who's trying to play it safe; he doesn't want to run into an out,” manager Clint Hurdle said. “If you look at the replay of the ball, the ball changed trajectory about halfway out there because of the wind. The wind knocked it down.



“I think his read off the bat was that there might be a play, and I want to be able to move up if there's a catch. Well, there wasn't a catch. In a worst-case scenario, he ended up at third. It's one of those situations where you play it safe early and maybe more aggressive later.”



http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/1254 ... tial-rally



Hey, how about "there might be a play but I have to score if there isn't?" With his speed he scores on that hit just about any way except if he's standing on the bag--which he was. No wonder Hurdle's team always seems to be poor fundamentally. He defends it.

I didn't mind that play by Marte. I feel players should tag up more on fly balls so they can advance. Fielders rarely miss fly balls. Especially, fast players like Marte.



I see the argument of going half way. If it is dropped, then he scores. But if it is caught, no advancement.



I wish players were better at reading the ball off the bat. What was Cora doing? Did he see it? Was Harrison yelling at Marte to run?



Also note: Hurdle usually defends his players to the media. He might have said that, but doesn't mean it wasn't discussed behind closed doors.



(I have this debate almost weekly with my softball team, funny to me this was brought up. I am sure some of my teammates were just as upset at Marte.)

He doesn't embarrass his players in public. I would like to think he explains things a little more pointedly when they are back in his office in the clubhouse.

4E454D4144455E1B1D6A534B4245450449452A0 wrote: I didn't mind that play by Marte.  I feel players should tag up more on fly balls so they can advance.  Fielders rarely miss fly balls.  Especially, fast players like Marte.



I see the argument of going half way.  If it is dropped, then he scores.  But if it is caught, no advancement.   



I wish players were better at reading the ball off the bat.  What was Cora doing?  Did he see it?  Was Harrison yelling at Marte to run? 



Also note: Hurdle usually defends his players to the media.  He might have said that, but doesn't mean it wasn't discussed behind closed doors.



(I have this debate almost weekly with my softball team, funny to me this was brought up.  I am sure some of my teammates were just as upset at Marte.)
The first priority is to score on the hit because you don't know how the rest of the inning will unfold if you don't. You don't sacrifice that in order to move up one base if the ball is caught. Initially there was some doubt as to whether it would be caught or not. That required Marte to go about half way so he could get back on a catch or score on a hit. You don't totally sell out on expecting a catch in order to tag up unless it's obvious, which this was not.



This reminded me of a play last year when Marte inexplicably ran into an out at 3B on a ground ball in front of him to SS when he wasn't forced from 2B. Hurdle defended him saying he couldn't tell a player who was trying to win that he did something wrong. Really?

5B59434553360 wrote: He doesn't embarrass his players in public. I would like to think he explains things a little more pointedly when they are back in his office in the clubhouse.
Cora talked to Marte when he arrived at 3B, presumably telling him what he did wrong. All Hurdle needed to say was that they talked to Marte. Defending the bad baserunning makes everyone look bad.

Too many times, in my opinion, where I thought a player should have tagged up. But since they went half way, there was no advancement. An out was made and the runners were in the same spot.



Marte is not a smart base runner to begin with. Any confusion or second guessing on his part will probably be the wrong decision.

Didn't see the play in question, but in the first inning? So, Marte, the leadoff hitter, was on second, with Harrison, the number two hitter, at the plate? That means there were no outs. I don't think we can say carte blanche that it was a bad base running decision. Taking everything into account:



1. Top of the first inning

2. No outs

3. Best hitter in baseball over the last two+ months coming up

4. Your ace on the hill



I'd say it was a prudent decision. If the ball is caught, then worst case scenario, you have a runner at third with one out. Best case scenario is you have second and third, no outs, and McCutchen and Bell coming up.



In my mind, taking all that into account isn't the time to take an unnecessary risk on the base paths. This team runs into more outs than I can count on the bases. I'm fine with just about all these guys playing it safe.

1F17142335103738560 wrote: Didn't see the play in question, but in the first inning?  So, Marte, the leadoff hitter, was on second, with Harrison, the number two hitter, at the plate?  That means there were no outs.  I don't think we can say carte blanche that it was a bad base running decision.  Taking everything into account:



1.  Top of the first inning

2.  No outs

3.  Best hitter in baseball over the last two+ months coming up

4.  Your ace on the hill



I'd say it was a prudent decision.  If the ball is caught, then worst case scenario, you have a runner at third with one out.  Best case scenario is you have second and third, no outs, and McCutchen and Bell coming up.



In my mind, taking all that into account isn't the time to take an unnecessary risk on the base paths.  This team runs into more outs than I can count on the bases.  I'm fine with just about all these guys playing it safe.
There was no unnecessary risk. He scores easily from 2B on the double.