Williams+Kuhl 2018 Starting pitching and beyond

steve49 · Post by **steve49** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:25 am

515850414F350 wrote: Windup? Stretch? Don't really care how Glasnow goes about it as long as one or the other works to make him the top of the rotation guy as soon as possible.

Why it makes sense for Glasnow to pitch from the stretch is because he's 6'8". The toughest thing for guys this length is to repeat the same delivery over and over. That's why you don't see a whole lot of pitchers his height. This is probably why Randy Johnson also pitched from the stretch ? I'm really surprised to read all the negative posts regarding him ditching the windup. The guy is dominating AAA , throwing 3-4 MPH harder and is showing WAY better command and these guys want to poo hoo it ? What's the difference between a sour grapes Pirate fan and a puppy ?

1)He's not throwing harder

2) his command is so far a little bit better, not much. Its too small of a sample and too small of a difference to say for sure

3)he can throw the ball underhand for all that it matters

Remember how Tony Sanchez was throwing great and had figured it out yadda yadda all the reports coming from P2?

Where do you get your info from ? Here's what Tim Williams views from watching. Are you also watching to make a statement like is command is a little better but not by much.

"What we are seeing from him since he was sent down in early June is someone who attacks hitters. His velocity is the best we have seen from him, hitting 100 multiple times and 99 MPH has been a regular guest on the radar gun. It’s not just in Indianapolis, other parks have the same numbers. He hit 99 a few times last year during the season, but he’s now hitting it more per game than he did all of last year. When his velocity drops later in starts, it’s now in the 94-97 range, instead of 92-94 we saw late in games last year. Part of that could just be him throwing more strikes, so he isn’t having as many strenuous pitches throughout the game due to long innings. In fact, longer innings are rarely showing up anymore, when they would happen 2-3 times a game last year.

The fastball isn’t just faster, it’s around the plate more. He was all over the place last year in Triple-A, often getting help from impatient hitters, which wasn’t happening when he went to the majors. Now he is blowing fastballs by batters in the zone, instead of them chasing the pitches. His curve is being thrown more often for strikes and he is using his changeup effectively. In yesterday’s game, the pitch was getting a swinging strike in the zone almost every time. He kept catchers very busy blocking pitches last year, but that isn’t happening this time around. Of course there are some wild pitches here and there, but it’s a huge difference."
That's good to hear, Steve. It's not so important that he blows away AAA hitters but rather how he's doing it so we have an idea how it will translate to MLB. Sounds like he may be on the path to success at the MLB level!

It's great news if Tim Williams is accurate but it seems like dmetz has a different source that is reporting much differently. Unless he's just posting with no knowledge to the subject matter ? I doubt anyone would find it prudent to just spout off without any basis. So I've tempered my hopes as obviously there are different scouting reports out there ?

Ok. That's fine. I'm just going to back off it and note that Tim Williams is not a scout. I understand P2 has a cult-like following and questioning the opinions (and facts) focused on there is grounds for being slandered to many, HOWEVER I am not one of those followers.

You can't burn me at the stake for being an apostate to P2 since I've never believed in that religion.

We will all find out the truth to these "scouting reports" in very short order. Glasnow will be up shortly. If he is able to be a dominant pitcher, it will change everything for 2018. I've never seen a pitcher as screwed up as he was become a good pitcher a few months and less than 100 innings later. his minor league stat lines aren't a lot better than what they were before he was initially called up, particularly his bb/9 and it's a small sample. it's total domination. It was before, and it still is.

his walk rates are still high, his minor league K rates are astronomical, and his h/9 are tiny.

He was unable to hold any of those upon callus, twice in two different seasons. his walks were actually the CLOSEST to his minor league lines, while his H/9 skyrocketed and his k's fell away significantly.

His SO/W at indy 2016 was 2.12. This year its 3.54. That would at least appear to give some possibility that his command and or stuff is better this year ? I hear you on "how the heck can he turn it around in 55 innings ?" IMO.. he was a head case in Pitt and his mechanics went to hell when he got into trouble. Being 6"8" adds to the problem. I do think the no windup could be the answer as it was for another really tall guy.. Randy Johnson. I don't think Tim Williams is God but I'm encouraged ? Oh.. and unless we get into the race quickly , I'm not so sure he's up before another 4-5 stars which would add a year for the Pirates. I'm not sure f the date but did had it was 4-5 starts. Anyway.. I do agree that if he's an ace , it makes us a contender going forward .

mouse · Post by **mouse** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:27 am

I think I saw that the cutoff would be late this month, so he could be brought up when rosters expand in September. There is no good reason to bring him up before then.

steve49 · Post by **steve49** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:03 pm

2C2E343224410 wrote: I think I saw that the cutoff would be late this month, so he could be brought up when rosters expand in September. There is no good reason to bring him up before then.

Thanks and I agree.

dogknot17@yahoo.co · Post by **dogknot17@yahoo.co** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:18 pm

112A202B07430 wrote: Guy throws way to many pitches for my taste. Keep your Nolan Ryans and Roger Clemens .I want a team full of Tom Glavines and Greg Maddux.

Hope he gets a late call up get another 4-5 start going into off season.

Huntington likes the Ryans and Clemens more. He likes the power arms.

ChitownBucco · Post by **ChitownBucco** » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:53 am

very interesting spring training shaping up for 2018

BenM · Post by **BenM** » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:29 pm

I just listened to an interview with Peter Gammons and he thinks the rotation could be special next year. However, it was on WFAN (NYC) so he didn't go into detail.

ChitownBucco · Post by **ChitownBucco** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:24 pm

6C47465B4058416D5A4C4C402F0 wrote: All this to say, it seems they both can be pretty reliable 5th and maybe even 4th starter type material going into 2018.

We have 3 other guys in Cole, Nova, Taillon for at least the next two years as well.

We also have quite a few guys knocking at the door as prospects, and rehabbing former fringe MLB guys in AAA and AA.

for the off season, what moves would you make as a GM knowing that you have alot of cheap and relatively cheap pitching locked up.

time to trade the glut of minor league arms and get some MLB ready talent bats in return

notes34 · Post by **notes34** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:54 pm

1A31302D362E371B2C3A3A36590 wrote: All this to say, it seems they both can be pretty reliable 5th and maybe even 4th starter type material going into 2018.

We have 3 other guys in Cole, Nova, Taillon for at least the next two years as well.

We also have quite a few guys knocking at the door as prospects, and rehabbing former fringe MLB guys in AAA and AA.

for the off season, what moves would you make as a GM knowing that you have alot of cheap and relatively cheap pitching locked up.

time to trade the glut of minor league arms and get some MLB ready talent bats in return

With Kuhl and Williams pitching so well I would consider moving Nova in the offseason. What could you get in return I'm not sure. He is a decent arm, and will eat a lot of innings. If Kingham/Glasnow are ready for next year Nova would be the odd man out IMO.

DemDog · Post by **DemDog** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:16 pm

4D4C5746501017230 wrote: All this to say, it seems they both can be pretty reliable 5th and maybe even 4th starter type material going into 2018.

We have 3 other guys in Cole, Nova, Taillon for at least the next two years as well.

We also have quite a few guys knocking at the door as prospects, and rehabbing former fringe MLB guys in AAA and AA.

for the off season, what moves would you make as a GM knowing that you have alot of cheap and relatively cheap pitching locked up.

time to trade the glut of minor league arms and get some MLB ready talent bats in return

With Kuhl and Williams pitching so well I would consider moving Nova in the offseason. What could you get in return I'm not sure. He is a decent arm, and will eat a lot of innings. If Kingham/Glasnow are ready for next year Nova would be the odd man out IMO.

I dont disagree totally with you about Nova. But I think we will need him next season. He eats innings and can be the "veteran" on the staff. I think that if the kids keep coming around you move him to #4 slot and maybe dump him at the TDL. Glasnow ans Kingham not set in stone yet. Will be interesting to see how things workout over the off season and into ST.

johnfluharty · Post by **johnfluharty** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:18 pm

We're not going to get anything for him in a trade and are certainly not going to want him around next year if he doesn't start pitching better. His ERA since July is close to 6 and the opposition is hitting > 300 against him.