OnlyBucs

The goal isn't to "compete". It's to ####ing WIN.



"Oooh if these 3 guys improve, and these 2 guys return to form, and this guy pitches like he's supposed to, we can compete"



------------ < here's where the bar needs to be.





_________< here's where the "compete" bar is

7C7B574056350 wrote: Pitching was a weakness for the Bucs this year. But why?  What happened to Cole?  A suggestion- pitching inside. Remember how certain teams (StL) whined that the Bucs hit batters? This year our hitters were hit more often than any team- 86 times. Yet our pitchers were #17 in HB with 57.  Could this be one of the reasons?

I know that the lack of talent is the main reason for struggles but Cole and friends could be more effective pitching inside. Note: Trevor Williams led the team in HB.


Comparatively speaking I would say the offense was a bigger weakness than the pitching,




this



Pitching was better than league avg, not good enough, but also not the biggest need

I agree. I don't think a Starter is coming in unless one of the five are traded.



Marte and Kang should help the offense. I still think them missing all that time was a huge blow to a decent offense. They need to react faster and better if Kang won't be back. I hope they think he won't and upgrade 3B. If Kang is back, then they have a better bench as Kang can play SS, 2B and Harrison can play 2B and 3B. Hurdle loves that rest. This will help him.

062D2C312A322B073026262A450 wrote: Pitching was a weakness for the Bucs this year. But why?  What happened to Cole?  A suggestion- pitching inside. Remember how certain teams (StL) whined that the Bucs hit batters? This year our hitters were hit more often than any team- 86 times. Yet our pitchers were #17 in HB with 57.  Could this be one of the reasons?

I know that the lack of talent is the main reason for struggles but Cole and friends could be more effective pitching inside. Note: Trevor Williams led the team in HB.


Comparatively speaking I would say the offense was a bigger weakness than the pitching,




this



Pitching was better than league avg, not good enough, but also not the biggest need




Not good enough is still not good enough, though. This staff wouldn't get us through (or to) the Playoffs so why improve anything if you're not going to improve the rotation? Get one guy and one guy to the pen, unless you thing your guys already here will all take big steps.

3338303C3938236660172E363F3838793438570 wrote: I agree.  I don't think a Starter is coming in unless one of the five are traded. 



Marte and Kang should help the offense.  I still think them missing all that time was a huge blow to a decent offense.  They need to react faster and better if Kang won't be back.  I hope they think he won't and upgrade 3B.  If Kang is back, then they have a better bench as Kang can play SS, 2B and Harrison can play 2B and 3B.  Hurdle loves that rest.  This will help him.


I think you can look at the current crop of players and rationalize holding pat. Between Luplow platooning with Polanco in the OF and the potential of Meadows reaching the majors and Kang, Freese, Mercer, Frazier and Sean Rod handling second through short and all 5 members of the starting rotation under contract through 2019. They have a lot of guys under team friendly deals, and lots of of pre-arb guys contributing. Two consecutive dud years should inform them that this current core isn't good enough. And just like you could make a rational argument that they could hold pat, you could also argue that they need upgrades everywhere. So operating in a world of constraints, and if they are going to upgrade, they have to identify the spot where investment brings the greatest return. To me, that's upgrading the left side of the infield.

454E464A4F4E551016615840494E4E0F424E210 wrote: I agree.  I don't think a Starter is coming in unless one of the five are traded. 



Marte and Kang should help the offense.  I still think them missing all that time was a huge blow to a decent offense.  They need to react faster and better if Kang won't be back.  I hope they think he won't and upgrade 3B.  If Kang is back, then they have a better bench as Kang can play SS, 2B and Harrison can play 2B and 3B.  Hurdle loves that rest.  This will help him.


I really don't think we can count on Kang. I'm glad he'll be playing in the DR, but I still doubt he gets back to the States. And even if he does, no telling if he'll be able to perform at a sufficient level to be more than just replacement level.



My fear is that they have already addressed third base by reacquiring S-Rod. S-Rod is a nice complementary piece to have on a good team. He plays a lot of positions well, brings a good attitude to the clubhouse, and can hit the occasional long ball.



But...he's not a starter. Neither is Freese at this stage of his career. If they are planning to platoon two back-ups at third base, the net result is they are starting a back-up third baseman. I can't really fault them for this year, since I don't really think they could have done any better than Freese, given the circumstances. But, a Freese/S-Rod sharing of PT will not be sufficient if they want to compete.

I agree about Kang. There worst move or non-move was not replacing Kang or knowing his situation. They should have known his status sooner or at least figured it out and had a back up plan.



Rodriguez and Freese platoon would not be good. They are back up players at best.

777C74787D7C672224536A727B7C7C3D707C130 wrote: I agree about Kang.  There worst move or non-move was not replacing Kang or knowing his situation.  They should have known his status sooner or at least figured it out and had a back up plan.



Rodriguez and Freese platoon would not be good.  They are back up players at best. 


I'm not opposed to holding still with the rotation. It's cheap, relatively effective, and it's not an unreasonable position to expect some improvement.



We cannot sit still with the lineup as well and expect to win anything next year. 



The 3b pickup is the bare minimum and it needs to be a big splash acquisition.   If Kang shows up, even better because he can fill multiple roles in the infield as he gets reacclimated to ML pitching



Might as well sell off if we're not going to even add the big 3bman. No chance

363F372628520 wrote:



Might as well sell off if we're not going to even add the big 3bman.   No chance


That's where I am. Collectively, you can say that every position is decently covered.



C: Cervelli and Diaz

1B: Bell, Freese as RH backup

2B: Harrison and Frazier

SS: Mercer, with combo of backups (Frazier, Moroff, SeanRod)

3B: Freese, Kang (maybe) Harrison, Frazier, Sean Rod as options

RF: Polanco, Luplow

CF: McCutchen (Meadows if injury)

LF: Marte (Meadows if injury)



What's crappy about the situation is that when tough calls are being made, and he's afraid he's getting a raw deal, he can argue that the specific position is covered and back out of an expensive acquisition. I hope he's going into the offseason saying that I need to shake things up on offense. I wouldn't touch the pitching staff, and I wouldn't be afraid of making the offense worse. I say, Bell is my 1st baseman, if I can somehow turn McCutchen, Polanco, Marte & Harrrison into an upgrade at 2 positions, then I do it and back fill with my versatile group of guys like Frazier and SeanRod.

I think this is a big off season. If they move McCutchen, Cole or Harrison it will put them in rebuild mode as I doubt they will get major league ready talent or better talent as of now in return. Its one thing to trade maybe Harrison for an upgrade at 3B, but if they trade for some Single A player, then its rebuild mode.



Time will tell. I am hoping for some tweaking and not an overhaul.