OnlyBucs

To be fair to NH, Marte and Kang torpedoed this season. What NH didn't do was fix it- he didn't even try, and he DID have some money for that since Marte and Kang were not being paid.

5F7F6C71701E0 wrote: People are so against the Pirates in general that they aren't seeing any positives. 




I actually love the Pirates. And that's why the sham that you cheer Bob Nutting to get away with disgusts me.



You? You no longer love the Pirates. You love Neal Huntngton and Bob Nutting.


Now, I am cheering Bob Nutting? I thought this was about Huntington?



Just because I understand the moves doesn't mean I am not against them.  I do see more positives than negatives.  Yeah, that can change.  As of right now, it has not in my opinion.  My opinion doesn't mean I am lying.

7551454D48240 wrote: For me it's impossible to label the front office as incompetent. NH has done some good things and bad things as a GM. He's had some successes and experienced some failures. In my view he's proven on balance to be no better than an average GM during his tenure, somewhere south of good and somewhere north of incompetent.



There is a context however that does mitigate some of the failures- the Nutting ownership.



I believe that more than a few of the "bad" moves we've seen NH make have been necessitated by an overly restrictive ownership imposed salary cap. The payroll information below from spotrac.com serves to illustrate.



Year              League Average Payroll           Pirate Payroll

2015              $136.3M                                $105.0M

2016              $145.4M                                $105.8M

2017              $152.3M                                $109.8M



While League Average Payroll increased by 11.7% over the last 3 years Pirate Payroll increased by 4.6%. It's clear that the Pirate payroll hasn't kept up with inflation. If it had the Pirate payroll in 2017 would have been $117.3M ($7.5M more than Nutting actually allowed NH to spend). NH is operating as a GM while being handcuffed by ownership that won't even provide money for payroll that at a bare minimum stays even with the operating costs defined by inflation of this business sector.



Sure NH has earned some legitimate criticism (what GM hasn't?) but believing that another GM could be significantly more successful under the restrictive financial constraints that Bob Nutting so obviously demands is probably unrealistic.   


good information. I am still placing more blame on NH than you because if his job is to bring championships he needs to get his budget increased. Otherwise he should have at least hinted around that he was going to look for a new position. If others in baseball think he is a very good gm, he would be in demand.



Otherwise he is not being honest with fans if he can't bring a winner under the financial conditions and doesn't work to get those conditions changed.

At this time next year after another losing season, will NH be incompetent then? How about if it happens two more years?



He's mad a lot of bad moves the last two years. How much rope does he get with the payroll being the cause?



Because unless someone else buys the team, the payroll ratio to other clubs isn't improving. We could go for 20 years again and payroll could still be used to excuse poor results.

4A434B5A542E0 wrote: At this time next year after another losing season, will NH be incompetent then?  How about if it happens two more years?



He's mad a lot of bad moves the last two years.   How much rope does he get with the payroll being the cause?



Because unless someone else buys the team, the payroll ratio to other clubs isn't improving.   We could go for 20 years again and payroll could still be used to excuse poor results.
Good post, no one has talked about the Nicasio fiasco, how could anyone not get something for him. It rivals the last days of Littlefield when he gave Jack Morris a $10 million and he played one month and went home and drew his salary for a few years. His last 2 years of deals rival DL. I love the Pirates have for almost 50 years and it infuriates me to see this teams legacy destroyed by NH and Nutting. Nutting for giving NH a 4 year contract with such bad results. What are we going to do, I'm terrified of the damage that can be done with his 4 year contract.

6E676F7E700A0 wrote: At this time next year after another losing season, will NH be incompetent then?  How about if it happens two more years?



He's mad a lot of bad moves the last two years.   How much rope does he get with the payroll being the cause?



Because unless someone else buys the team, the payroll ratio to other clubs isn't improving.   We could go for 20 years again and payroll could still be used to excuse poor results.


Payroll isn't the sole cause. Personally I would have prefered to have replaced NH rather than give him an extension. His poor drafting and recent misses on talent evaluation don't give me much hope for the Pirates' chances to be competitive in the near future so I'd rather see what another GM could do. The "rope",however, is Bob Nutting's to extend and I suspect he will continue to be unconcerned about the increasingly frayed end to which NH is clinging. Unless Nutting changes his miserly ways payroll will continue in perpetuity to have a predictably negative effect on this franchise's on the field product.

070E061719630 wrote: At this time next year after another losing season, will NH be incompetent then?  How about if it happens two more years?



He's mad a lot of bad moves the last two years.   How much rope does he get with the payroll being the cause?



Because unless someone else buys the team, the payroll ratio to other clubs isn't improving.   We could go for 20 years again and payroll could still be used to excuse poor results.


The rope is getting shorter for sure. I guess he has four years or maybe just three if there is no improvement.



We had a GM state a five year plan and was fired before his five years. That can happen again.

28232B272223387D7B0C352D242323622F234C0 wrote: At this time next year after another losing season, will NH be incompetent then?  How about if it happens two more years?



He's mad a lot of bad moves the last two years.   How much rope does he get with the payroll being the cause?



Because unless someone else buys the team, the payroll ratio to other clubs isn't improving.   We could go for 20 years again and payroll could still be used to excuse poor results.


The rope is getting shorter for sure. I guess he has four years or maybe just three if there is no improvement.



We had a GM state a five year plan and was fired before his five years. That can happen again.


Here's another perfect example of how you make the truth into your own version of reality (i.e. blatant lie) in ordr to fit your phony narrative.



NH's, "rope is getting shorter?"



Everyone else sees a 4 year extension as a 4 year extension to continue getting the crappy, mediocre results that Nutting is after, to keep the profit train rolling.



You lie and say, "his rope is getting shorter."



Everyone else, for whatever reason, gives you leeway and pretend they don't know what you're trying to do, other than DMetz of course. He calls you out on your nonsense all the time. More people should, quite frankly.



By the way, VaP quit the board because of this very same thing. I didn't always agree with his opinions, but VaP was a very good poster and he left because of your nonsense.

5F7F6C71701E0 wrote: At this time next year after another losing season, will NH be incompetent then?  How about if it happens two more years?



He's mad a lot of bad moves the last two years.   How much rope does he get with the payroll being the cause?



Because unless someone else buys the team, the payroll ratio to other clubs isn't improving.   We could go for 20 years again and payroll could still be used to excuse poor results.


The rope is getting shorter for sure. I guess he has four years or maybe just three if there is no improvement.



We had a GM state a five year plan and was fired before his five years. That can happen again.


Here's another perfect example of how you make the truth into your own version of reality (i.e. blatant lie) in ordr to fit your phony narrative.



NH's, "rope is getting shorter?"



Everyone else sees a 4 year extension as a 4 year extension to continue getting the crappy, mediocre results that Nutting is after, to keep the profit train rolling.



You lie and say, "his rope is getting shorter."



Everyone else, for whatever reason, gives you leeway and pretend they don't know what you're trying to do, other than DMetz of course. He calls you out on your nonsense all the time. More people should, quite frankly.



By the way, VaP quit the board because of this very same thing. I didn't always agree with his opinions, but VaP was a very good poster and he left because of your nonsense.


Now what am I lying about? What are you trying to call me out on? Why does my opinion bother you so much? Others agree with me and yet you come after me every single time. What's your joy in this?

I really don’t know if NH is a good GM or not. I thought he was, but now I’m not so sure. Here’s what I know.



The Pirates' last pennant was 1979, also the last time they won a World Series.



Their last trip to the NLCS was 1992, also the last time they won a division. You should accidentally luck into better results than that, let alone achieve them by actually trying.



Since the division series began in 1995, every other NL team has played in it at least twice. The Bucs are the only NL team to have but one appearance. Heck, the Astros have seven appearances and haven’t played in the NL since 2012.



What I’m saying is...I’m tired of this. Herm Edwards said it best, “You play to win the game.” I’m willing to give NH a pass for the last two years due to the previous three and Marte/Kang/Taillon. But next year is it for me...if they just tread water this offseason, and don’t go for a full on rebuild or go for it all...if they are just content with mediocrity, I’m done with NH. If they come out flat to start 2018 and go like 10-20 in April, I’m done with Hurdle.



In a fifteen team league with five available playoff spots, in theory, the Pirates should be a playoff team next year. If enough fans ask, “When’s it going to be our turn?” with their money, maybe something will change.



I’m happy for the Astros. Good for them. Good for the city, especially this year. But, when does Pittsburgh get the chance to celebrate like that? With the exception of the Expos/Nationals, every NL team has more recently been to the NLCS than the Pirates. With the exception of the Expos/Nationals and Brewers, every other NL team has won an NLCS and been to the World Series since the Pirates last PLAYED in the NLCS.



When you think about it, that shouldn’t reallly be that difficult a goal. There are 15 teams...two spots. You should get there every seven to eight years. The Pirates haven’t been there in 25!!!



Off topic, I realize. But I’m sick of this charade. Put a competitive team on the field, or find someone, and sell to someone, who will.



That’s all I have to say.