OnlyBucs

565E5D6A7C597E711F0 wrote: Regarding third base, my fear is that they already feel like they addressed that with Rodriguez. So, we get two back-ups to split time over there. Great.



As for the rotation, this is actually the one area of our team where I don't really feel like an upgrade is needed. I honestly feel like Cole, Taillon, Nova, Kuhl, Williams, Glasnow, Brault, Kingham, Holmes should be fine. That's a decent 1-9. I'd love to have somebody along the lines of Kershaw, but that isn't happening.



Regardless, I just don't think we have the star power to compete. And I don't see it happening for a couple of years. I'd trade McCutchen, Harrison, Cervelli, Polanco, Marte, Mercer, and Cole for starters. Build around Bell and Taillon. Tank 2018 and 2019. Make 2020 your aim to be a 100 win team.


I thought the same once Rodriguez was acquired. 



I agree with you on the deals.  However, your return for Cole, Polanco and Marte won't be what you envision and I'm not sure Cervelli brings back much of anything due to his lack of power and his fragility.



Someone very well could offer more than I think fro Cole and Polanco because they look the part.  However, enigmas don't get a lot in return usually.



As far as the rotation, I'm not elated with it moving forward. We have more 3s and 5s in that list. We really don't have a one or two just yet. Cole was a 1 or 2 at one point, but he isn't now. Taillon could be in time.

474F4C7B6D486F600E0 wrote: You don't think they will ever compete?  Don't forget, the Astros recently lost 100 games a season for three straight years.  They built it back up with great draft picks having some top picks.  The Astros give me hope.  They were pretty bad and their top picks panned out.  Every team, in my opinion, can do the same thing.  The Royals just did it too.  They can get that window of opportunity.  Maybe it is best to tank it and get those high picks? 



I don't see too many MVPs on the farm.  I also never thought McCutchen would be an MVP either watching him come through the minors.  I have hope for Austin Meadows to replace McCutchen, but injuries are derailing him a bit.



I also don't think this team is far removed from contending.  Any team can win once they make the Playoffs.  Things need to fall in place as that happens for many teams.  The Astros certainly didn't think Jose Altuve  was a future MVP as he was cut the first day and then later signed for $15,000.



Modify (we were posting at the same time):



Did you think there was no hope for the Astros in 2009 - 2013 to never compete again?  They lost close to 500 games in that time period.   


Again, you need a reality check.  Houston lost 100 games recently, but had a heck of a lot of talent in the minors - way more than what we have.  They added good pieces in deals too-like a Verlander. We aren't even close.  The more you post secures my thinking you are NH or Nutting based on your continued optimism when there is zero evidence to have any.


I don't think Dog is NH, but it wouldn't surprise me if there are people from the organization that read this site, Bucs Dugout, certainly Pirates Prospects. It's an easy way to get a read on what the fanbase is thinking.


I don't work for the Pirates.  You think that because I am positive and have hope for the future.  Sorry for not being so negative just posting negative comments or stick up for players/management when I feel they are getting underserving criticism .  I understand and know the problems.  I have said them many times too.  I am not even happy with Huntington right now and expressed my concerns, but people still think I him.



Again, did you think there was no hope for the Astros in 2009 - 2013 to never compete again?  They lost close to 500 games in that time period.

4A41494540415A1F196E574F464141004D412E0 wrote: You don't think they will ever compete?  Don't forget, the Astros recently lost 100 games a season for three straight years.  They built it back up with great draft picks having some top picks.  The Astros give me hope.  They were pretty bad and their top picks panned out.  Every team, in my opinion, can do the same thing.  The Royals just did it too.  They can get that window of opportunity.  Maybe it is best to tank it and get those high picks? 



I don't see too many MVPs on the farm.  I also never thought McCutchen would be an MVP either watching him come through the minors.  I have hope for Austin Meadows to replace McCutchen, but injuries are derailing him a bit.



I also don't think this team is far removed from contending.  Any team can win once they make the Playoffs.  Things need to fall in place as that happens for many teams.  The Astros certainly didn't think Jose Altuve  was a future MVP as he was cut the first day and then later signed for $15,000.



Modify (we were posting at the same time):



Did you think there was no hope for the Astros in 2009 - 2013 to never compete again?  They lost close to 500 games in that time period.   


Again, you need a reality check.  Houston lost 100 games recently, but had a heck of a lot of talent in the minors - way more than what we have.  They added good pieces in deals too-like a Verlander. We aren't even close.  The more you post secures my thinking you are NH or Nutting based on your continued optimism when there is zero evidence to have any.


I don't think Dog is NH, but it wouldn't surprise me if there are people from the organization that read this site, Bucs Dugout, certainly Pirates Prospects. It's an easy way to get a read on what the fanbase is thinking.


I don't work for the Pirates.  You think that because I am positive and have hope for the future.  Sorry for not being so negative just posting negative comments or stick up for players/management when I feel they are getting underserving criticism .  I understand and know the problems.  I have said them many times too.  I am not even happy with Huntington right now and expressed my concerns, but people still think I him. 



Again, did you think there was no hope for the Astros in 2009 - 2013 to never compete again?  They lost close to 500 games in that time period.




I don’t think you’re NH, but sometimes I wonder if you work for the team. ;D



I try to be pretty positive as well. But, I have my limits and I try to be realistic. I don’t see any realistic way this team competes next year. And, as we learned from Ricky Bobby, “If you ain’t first, you’re last.” So, I say blow it up. I just feel like you can’t sugarcoat this anymore. The team is a mess. I’m still pro NH, but at some point, he has to take responsibility. And, he needs to draft a player of the caliber of Andrew McCutchen. He hasn’t done that yet.

4151506771717D120 wrote: In addition, when the Astros need pitching help in July, they go out and get Verlander, and the Dodgers get Darvish.   In contrast, the Pirates get Benoit and Kontos.



Astros may have some issues with the pen, but they have a great core of young players who can smack the ball around and who play well. 



With their current cast of talent, the Pirates need everything to go well to be able to compete.  In short, things don't look good for the Bucs in the near-term.




I vividly remember a boar member taking shots at Houston for not going out and making a deal to help the bullpen at the TDL.  That was Dog.  Well, Dog, they didn't help that, but they went full Verlander and that was a major add.  He could be the MVP if they win this thing.  Bottom line, Houston went out and addressed a need.  Gave up a lot to get him, but realized they need to go for it.  This is something Pittsburgh didn't do.  Three good years as a wild card, but didn't build on that in any way.  Utter fail.



We aren't close, but some will continue to be delusional thinking we can compete.  We can't.


The Astros didn't get Verlander in July. They got him in late August (8/31), hours before the playoff rosters had to be set. So, if I said this at the deadline, wasn't I right?



The Astros Bullpen has been awful in the post season. If you aren't watching, here are some stats: 5.89 ERA, 36 ER in 55 IP, 14 HRs, 57% Save percentage, .809 OPS, 105 total bases. This is probably why they are using starters to relieve games. They are getting by, but it certainly isn't because of their Bullpen. I guess I was wrong...again?

As for the Astros, absolutely I thought there was hope. I think anyone who honestly followed baseball could see what they were doing and building. Right now, the Pirates to me are a team with no direction. They are hoping that a bunch of things will break right and they can maybe sneak in the playoffs as a wild card team. Hope is no way to run an organization. When the Astros were getting called the AAAstros, Lastros, and Disastros, people could still see the plan in place. What’s the Pirates plan?



As far as I can tell, it’s hoping that Cole, Polanco, and Marte figure it out, that Kang comes back, that Cervelli suddenly learns how not to get injured, and that some desperate team overpays for three months of Andrew McCutchen. That’s not a plan. That’s spitting into the wind and hoping it doesn’t hit you in the face.

020A093E280D2A254B0 wrote: You don't think they will ever compete?  Don't forget, the Astros recently lost 100 games a season for three straight years.  They built it back up with great draft picks having some top picks.  The Astros give me hope.  They were pretty bad and their top picks panned out.  Every team, in my opinion, can do the same thing.  The Royals just did it too.  They can get that window of opportunity.  Maybe it is best to tank it and get those high picks? 



I don't see too many MVPs on the farm.  I also never thought McCutchen would be an MVP either watching him come through the minors.  I have hope for Austin Meadows to replace McCutchen, but injuries are derailing him a bit.



I also don't think this team is far removed from contending.  Any team can win once they make the Playoffs.  Things need to fall in place as that happens for many teams.  The Astros certainly didn't think Jose Altuve  was a future MVP as he was cut the first day and then later signed for $15,000.



Modify (we were posting at the same time):



Did you think there was no hope for the Astros in 2009 - 2013 to never compete again?  They lost close to 500 games in that time period.   


Again, you need a reality check.  Houston lost 100 games recently, but had a heck of a lot of talent in the minors - way more than what we have.  They added good pieces in deals too-like a Verlander. We aren't even close.  The more you post secures my thinking you are NH or Nutting based on your continued optimism when there is zero evidence to have any.


I don't think Dog is NH, but it wouldn't surprise me if there are people from the organization that read this site, Bucs Dugout, certainly Pirates Prospects. It's an easy way to get a read on what the fanbase is thinking.


I don't work for the Pirates.  You think that because I am positive and have hope for the future.  Sorry for not being so negative just posting negative comments or stick up for players/management when I feel they are getting underserving criticism .  I understand and know the problems.  I have said them many times too.  I am not even happy with Huntington right now and expressed my concerns, but people still think I him. 



Again, did you think there was no hope for the Astros in 2009 - 2013 to never compete again?  They lost close to 500 games in that time period.




I don’t think you’re NH, but sometimes I wonder if you work for the team.  ;D



I try to be pretty positive as well. But, I have my limits and I try to be realistic. I don’t see any realistic way this team competes next year. And, as we learned from Ricky Bobby, “If you ain’t first, you’re last.” So, I say blow it up. I just feel like you can’t sugarcoat this anymore. The team is a mess. I’m still pro NH, but at some point, he has to take responsibility. And, he needs to draft a player of the caliber of Andrew McCutchen. He hasn’t done that yet.


I find myself trying to argue the positive more than the negative, likely because the naysayers tend to be just so damn hyperbolic in the criticism.  It annoys me.



If everyone was loving the management, I'd probably find faults. 



Probably just me, but I think nothing/nobody is ever as good as people or as bad as people say. 

171F1C2B3D183F305E0 wrote: As for the Astros, absolutely I thought there was hope. I think anyone who honestly followed baseball could see what they were doing and building. Right now, the Pirates to me are a team with no direction. They are hoping that a bunch of things will break right and they can maybe sneak in the playoffs as a wild card team. Hope is no way to run an organization. When the Astros were getting called the AAAstros, Lastros, and Disastros, people could still see the plan in place. What’s the Pirates plan?



As far as I can tell, it’s hoping that Cole, Polanco, and Marte figure it out, that Kang comes back, that Cervelli suddenly learns how not to get injured, and that some desperate team overpays for three months of Andrew McCutchen. That’s not a plan. That’s spitting into the wind and hoping it doesn’t hit you in the face.


Yes, good answer. You saw the rebuilding. Sports Illustrated "predicted" them this year too. I also saw this for the Pirates in Huntington's early years. I was not surprised when 2013 happened.



I really don't know the direction right now. This is a huge off season, but we will see the direction after some moves are made (McCutchen situation). I do feel the Pirates think they still have a good core to compete as they aren't that far removed from the Playoffs. I understand both sides. Weighing in the last two years they lost with unexpected lack of play/personnel (Cole, Liriano, McCutchen drop offs and then the Kang & Marte situations). I hope they bring in help (real help) instead of blowing it up, that's all.

I think they're not good enough to go all the way unless some things go very right, but then they're also good enough that blowing it up doesn't seem quite right either.  Which isn't a good place to be, I get it. 



But if they DON'T add I hope they deal.

IMO, The problem with the Pirates is that they are, by choice, trying to walk the line in between a full rebuild and going all-in for a championship.  They are thinking that through this method they can put together a 'competitive' team every year, with the definition of competitive being that we are hanging around within a half-dozen games of leading the division or a wild card.  The chances of this method leading to a world series championship are pretty slim.

515453555D574E535A494F423B0 wrote: IMO, The problem with the Pirates is that they are, by choice, trying to walk the line in between a full rebuild and going all-in for a championship.  They are thinking that through this method they can put together a 'competitive' team every year, with the definition of competitive being that we are hanging around within a half-dozen games of leading the division or a wild card.  The chances of this method leading to a world series championship are pretty slim.


I kind of agree with that. Its like they don't know who they really have. Many of their players were All Stars and would start for many teams, but can they do it again? Gerrit Cole is a perfect example. Why can't he repeat his 2015 season? He is only 27 years old. Do you really want to give up on that guy? Many borderline questions for sure.