OnlyBucs

fjk090852-7 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 12:15 pm In my opinion I like this trade. Sure they gave up a MLB starting pitcher and two prospects, but in turn they acquired a player who can play first base for several years. First base has been a revolving door for several seasons. Also if you look at the bigger picture the Pirates have still not spent any 2025 salary on free agents. Let’s assume Cutch returns, so even if they spend similar to the past couple off-seasons in free agency they should have the resources to acquire a decent outfielder and bullpen help to upgrade the roster. Hopefully there is additional follow up to this trade!

It's that sentence that makes me shake my head. Nutting's convinced so many people that he's poor, that he can't afford to stretch himself with the payroll to create a winning team. The first concern a fan should have is the quality of the trade: did we get someone in return who's going to make the team better? Instead, the concern for the Pirates ability to keep costs low is immediately addressed. Stop giving Nutting a break. He doesn't deserve it.

Doc wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 3:01 pm
Nutting's convinced so many people that he's poor

He only has money to hire those who are unqualified to do anything else but parrot that line.

Doc wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 3:01 pm

fjk090852-7 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 12:15 pm In my opinion I like this trade. Sure they gave up a MLB starting pitcher and two prospects, but in turn they acquired a player who can play first base for several years. First base has been a revolving door for several seasons. Also if you look at the bigger picture the Pirates have still not spent any 2025 salary on free agents. Let’s assume Cutch returns, so even if they spend similar to the past couple off-seasons in free agency they should have the resources to acquire a decent outfielder and bullpen help to upgrade the roster. Hopefully there is additional follow up to this trade!

It's that sentence that makes me shake my head. Nutting's convinced so many people that he's poor, that he can't afford to stretch himself with the payroll to create a winning team. The first concern a fan should have is the quality of the trade: did we get someone in return who's going to make the team better? Instead, the concern for the Pirates ability to keep costs low is immediately addressed. Stop giving Nutting a break. He doesn't deserve it.

I’m not giving Nutting any breaks. I just hope this trade for a potential long term player at first base will now open the door for the Pirates to spend on a free agent mid range outfielder on a two or three year contract.

He's a 27-year old platoon player?

All praise for Hague as new hitting coach and no one thinks he told the brass that Horwitz was a guy to look at closely. He was a 24th rounder out of some small college I have never heard of and climbed through the minors as a severe non-prospect to the tune of 307/.413/.471. Then he gets a first real look in the majors starting in June last year and goes .265 .357 .433 after tearing it up in AAA. That is about the same OPS as Reynolds put up last year - .790 to .791. And with Reynolds rumored to take some time at 1B, do you have your platoon already in place for LHPing? How have our recent prospects responded to their first look at MLB pitching? I get they may be younger, but this kid was ready to rake in a tough division.

If Horwitz can solve part of the 1B problem we have him until 2030, at a price that allows us to get the OFer we need per fjk090852-7's point - which only brought out screams that the owner is cheap without considering that at last years salary rate we still have $20 million or so to spend on FAs this year (and our owner still remains cheap). BC's job is on the line and I want to see what happens when all the dust settles before shedding tears on this one. Financial flexibility is still there.

Did we over pay, maybe. I do wish Horwitz had a little more thump in his bat, but it might be nice to watch a 1B whose greatest talent isn't striking out, which ours seem to specialize in lately. And we have Oviedo, Burrows, Harrington, Ashcraft and Chandler all waiting in the wings and still Bucs. We knew Ortiz was going to go and he still has a lot of ????s about his game. I liked Kennedy and hate to lose him, but Hartle throws 88-91 with little control, was a disaster at Wake last year and already reclamation project coming in.

UtahPirate2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 4:51 pm All praise for Hague as new hitting coach and no one thinks he told the brass that Horwitz was a guy to look at closely. He was a 24th rounder out of some small college I have never heard of and climbed through the minors as a severe non-prospect to the tune of 307/.413/.471. Then he gets a first real look in the majors starting in June last year and goes .265 .357 .433 after tearing it up in AAA. That is about the same OPS as Reynolds put up last year - .790 to .791. And with Reynolds rumored to take some time at 1B, do you have your platoon already in place for LHPing? How have our recent prospects responded to their first look at MLB pitching? I get they may be younger, but this kid was ready to rake in a tough division.

If Horwitz can solve part of the 1B problem we have him until 2030, at a price that allows us to get the OFer we need per fjk090852-7's point - which only brought out screams that the owner is cheap without considering that at last years salary rate we still have $20 million or so to spend on FAs this year (and our owner still remains cheap). BC's job is on the line and I want to see what happens when all the dust settles before shedding tears on this one. Financial flexibility is still there.

Did we over pay, maybe. I do wish Horwitz had a little more thump in his bat, but it might be nice to watch a 1B whose greatest talent isn't striking out, which ours seem to specialize in lately. And we have Oviedo, Burrows, Harrington, Ashcraft and Chandler all waiting in the wings and still Bucs. We knew Ortiz was going to go and he still has a lot of ????s about his game. I liked Kennedy and hate to lose him, but Hartle throws 88-91 with little control, was a disaster at Wake last year and already reclamation project coming in.

I didn't complain that the owner is cheap. My issue is that too many fans have swallowed his line that he's poor, that they buy his lie that he has to keep his payroll low, and that he can't operate like other franchises. People defend his actions when they're indefensible.

It does answer my Reynolds question. They aren't expending resources at first base if they expect Reynolds to play there. So at most he might get a game there now and then, to see how he does. So now it's outfielders we're to expect.

Doc wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 5:29 pm I didn't complain that the owner is cheap. My issue is that too many fans have swallowed his line that he's poor, that they buy his lie that he has to keep his payroll low, and that he can't operate like other franchises. People defend his actions when they're indefensible.

I don't think fans believe Nutting has to keep the payroll as low as he does. He could spend more but we realize by now that he just won't. Not only that, but his organization has such a bad reputation as perennial losers that he'd have a hard time getting good players to take his money even if he offered it. Which he won't. Given Nutting's self-imposed limitations, I hope Horwitz gives them steady hitting and at least 15-20 HRs. It doesn't look like the type of player a contending team obtains for 1B. But maybe he can add power. At least he's not the aging, declining player they usually get for 1B.

Bobster wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 6:03 pm

Doc wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 5:29 pm I didn't complain that the owner is cheap. My issue is that too many fans have swallowed his line that he's poor, that they buy his lie that he has to keep his payroll low, and that he can't operate like other franchises. People defend his actions when they're indefensible.

I don't think fans believe Nutting has to keep the payroll as low as he does. He could spend more but we realize by now that he just won't. Not only that, but his organization has such a bad reputation as perennial losers that he'd have a hard time getting good players to take his money even if he offered it. Which he won't. Given Nutting's self-imposed limitations, I hope Horwitz gives them steady hitting and at least 15-20 HRs. It doesn't look like the type of player a contending team obtains for 1B. But maybe he can add power. At least he's not the aging, declining player they usually get for 1B.

I don't have an opinion one way or the other on the trade. I know nothing of Horowitz but I hope he exceeds expectations. I root hard for anyone who wears a Pirates uniform. It just drives me nuts when people who are discussing the Pirates, right at the outset, parrot Nutting's lies about how little money he has to spend on payroll.

https://www.mlb.com/news/garrett-croche ... -white-sox

The Pirates sign 2B/OF Nick Solak to a minor league contract. - https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... ni01.shtml