OnlyBucs

456865747362753536070 wrote: The Cubs were very good last year.  They didn't make any moves to improve on last year, in my opinion.  They will still be very good, but they lost some key guys and replaced them with worse players. 



Losing Chapman, Fowler, and Ross could be big blows.  Hammel, Woods, and some bench guys not returning didn't help either.



They will still be very good.  I am not sure they will be 2016 good.
Just as we expect Cutch to bounce back, the Cubs expect Heyward to rebound. They also get Schwarber back. That will help compensate for losing some players. I don't think the Pirates can make up the 25 game gap between the 2 teams last year.




And I don't think any pitcher (given 33 starts) gets us 25 games closer than what we already have either. If we would happen to be close to the division it's because something catastophic happens on the Chicago side of things.

1A373A2B2C3D2A6A69580 wrote: The Cubs were very good last year.  They didn't make any moves to improve on last year, in my opinion.  They will still be very good, but they lost some key guys and replaced them with worse players. 



Losing Chapman, Fowler, and Ross could be big blows.  Hammel, Woods, and some bench guys not returning didn't help either.



They will still be very good.  I am not sure they will be 2016 good.
Just as we expect Cutch to bounce back, the Cubs expect Heyward to rebound. They also get Schwarber back. That will help compensate for losing some players. I don't think the Pirates can make up the 25 game gap between the 2 teams last year. I don't think they can make up that gap either Bobster. I don't expect the Cubs to win 103 games like they did last year and win essentially every game against the Pirates, but I still expect the Cubs to be a lot better then the Pirates and finish much better then them in the standings.

6A5854544072515855505F58390 wrote: Quintana or Archer would have pushed them to the A area.


Depends on what they gave up.  No way I am trading Glasnow, Keller, and Bell for either of them.  Local media guy noted on Twitter that the Pirates should have pulled the trigger: those three for Quintana.




I would move those three.  Keller is the biggest loss.  We can replace Bell if need be.  Glasnow is going to bull pen.



Off season grade would jump to A.




I agree. If the Pirates had acquired Quintana with those assets I would give 'em an A.






Maybe I'm just too timid with these kinds of things, but I'm leery of cashing in all (most) of your chips in order to still not be good enough. 


My feeling is that without Quintana (or a comparable quality starter) the Bucs don't make the playoffs this year. With Quintana they do. Perhaps I'm too willing to part with prospects for immediate gratification (my temerity being the opposite side of the coin to your timidness) but right or wrong I want to avoid losing in 2017 exponentially more than I do any other future year.

1A3E2A22274B0 wrote: Quintana or Archer would have pushed them to the A area.


Depends on what they gave up.  No way I am trading Glasnow, Keller, and Bell for either of them.  Local media guy noted on Twitter that the Pirates should have pulled the trigger: those three for Quintana.




I would move those three.  Keller is the biggest loss.  We can replace Bell if need be.  Glasnow is going to bull pen.



Off season grade would jump to A.




I agree. If the Pirates had acquired Quintana with those assets I would give 'em an A.






Maybe I'm just too timid with these kinds of things, but I'm leery of cashing in all (most) of your chips in order to still not be good enough. 


My feeling is that without Quintana (or a comparable quality starter) the Bucs don't make the playoffs this year. With Quintana they do. Perhaps I'm too willing to part with prospects for immediate gratification (my temerity being the opposite side of the coin to your timidness) but right or wrong I want to avoid losing in 2017 exponentially more than I do any other future year.


This is fair. Fangraphs has the predicted NL playoff teams as:



NL West-Dodgers

NL Central-Cubs

NL East-Nationals

WC 1-Giants

WC 2-Mets (86-76)



Their predicted record for our Buccos is 82-80. So, four games out of the second WC. Four games over 162 isn't much. They also have the Mets at 39.6 WAR and us at 37.3 (of course, this is with Kang). Anyway, four games and 2.3 WAR isn't a great deal to make up. Could Quintana account for that? Perhaps. I wasn't a fan of the rumored trades to acquire him, but the more I think about it, the more I'd be willing to give up a Glasnow/Keller/Bell package for him. Just not Meadows.

There could always be a deadline deal to put the Pirates over the top too. Huntington has done well at the deadline the last four years.



Maybe if the Pirates are in it the whole time, a trade will be made sooner?

5E594F47495E19156C4B414D4540024F43412C0 wrote: Quintana or Archer would have pushed them to the A area.


Depends on what they gave up.  No way I am trading Glasnow, Keller, and Bell for either of them.  Local media guy noted on Twitter that the Pirates should have pulled the trigger: those three for Quintana.




I would move those three.  Keller is the biggest loss.  We can replace Bell if need be.  Glasnow is going to bull pen.



Off season grade would jump to A.




I'm an unabashed Glasnow fanboy. That said, there are too many on here willing to cast him off to the bullpen or trade him.



Over the last few days, Cook and Filiponi on The FAN have been doing their best "Hate on the Pirates" routine. Today, they interview Jim Leyland who gushed over this team (esp Chad Kuhl!). Leyland isn't much for inordinate flattery, so it was quite an interview. It was either during the interview or afterwards when it was just Cook and Filiponi, but someone was quoting an unnamed scout who said that "Glasnow was by far the best arm in all of Florida this spring."

5D406466680D0 wrote: Quintana or Archer would have pushed them to the A area.


Depends on what they gave up.  No way I am trading Glasnow, Keller, and Bell for either of them.  Local media guy noted on Twitter that the Pirates should have pulled the trigger: those three for Quintana.




I would move those three.  Keller is the biggest loss.  We can replace Bell if need be.  Glasnow is going to bull pen.



Off season grade would jump to A.




I'm an unabashed Glasnow fanboy.  That said, there are too many on here willing to cast him off to the bullpen or trade him.



Over the last few days, Cook and Filiponi on The FAN have been doing their best "Hate on the Pirates" routine.  Today, they interview Jim Leyland who gushed over this team (esp Chad Kuhl!).  Leyland isn't much for inordinate flattery, so it was quite an interview.  It was either during the interview or afterwards when it was just Cook and Filiponi, but someone was quoting an unnamed scout who said that "Glasnow was by far the best arm in all of Florida this spring."


Oh, I agree. My ONLY rationale is that Quintana could theoretically be here for four years, in which time we'd be able to draft and develop the NEXT Glasnow/Keller. I'm a big Glasnow guy as well, and I think Keller can be even better.

083A36362210333A37323D3A5B0 wrote: The Cubs were very good last year.  They didn't make any moves to improve on last year, in my opinion.  They will still be very good, but they lost some key guys and replaced them with worse players. 



Losing Chapman, Fowler, and Ross could be big blows.  Hammel, Woods, and some bench guys not returning didn't help either.



They will still be very good.  I am not sure they will be 2016 good.
Just as we expect Cutch to bounce back, the Cubs expect Heyward to rebound. They also get Schwarber back. That will help compensate for losing some players. I don't think the Pirates can make up the 25 game gap between the 2 teams last year.




And I don't think any pitcher (given 33 starts) gets us 25 games closer than what we already have either.  If we would happen to be close to the division it's because something catastophic happens on the Chicago side of things. 




How about if the number was 13 games instead of 25? Last year the Pirates beat the Cubs 2 times. This year, if the Pirates could simply win 8 against the Cubs they would make up 12 games. Or, if the Pirates were to do something extraordinary and win 13 against the Cubs the Pirates are within a game.



That's how I look at the race - what do the Pirates have to do to beat the Cubs? If they can win 2 out of 3 they are their. Instead of saying "can;t happen" I like to think "how can it happen?" Pitching....

6C6467504663444B250 wrote: Quintana or Archer would have pushed them to the A area.


Depends on what they gave up.  No way I am trading Glasnow, Keller, and Bell for either of them.  Local media guy noted on Twitter that the Pirates should have pulled the trigger: those three for Quintana.




I would move those three.  Keller is the biggest loss.  We can replace Bell if need be.  Glasnow is going to bull pen.



Off season grade would jump to A.




I'm an unabashed Glasnow fanboy.  That said, there are too many on here willing to cast him off to the bullpen or trade him.



Over the last few days, Cook and Filiponi on The FAN have been doing their best "Hate on the Pirates" routine.  Today, they interview Jim Leyland who gushed over this team (esp Chad Kuhl!).  Leyland isn't much for inordinate flattery, so it was quite an interview.  It was either during the interview or afterwards when it was just Cook and Filiponi, but someone was quoting an unnamed scout who said that "Glasnow was by far the best arm in all of Florida this spring."


Oh, I agree.   My ONLY rationale is that Quintana could theoretically be here for four years, in which time we'd be able to draft and develop the NEXT Glasnow/Keller.  I'm a big Glasnow guy as well, and I think Keller can be even better.




Glasnow is a mystery. A scout says he's the best arm in Fla, but fans who see him can't figure out why he's a top prospect much less the best arm in Fla. When I watched him a couple weeks ago I was simply shaking my head trying to figure out what the excitement is all about.

Cutch is gone at the deadline. What would be an acceptable return then? For next year's run?