OnlyBucs

And the ESPN stats page I was looking at says nothing about how high leverage he's been used in or how well or poorly he has done with inherited runners...

6661706370212C150 wrote: I am leaning to your side with the use of the bullpen.  But people still can't have it both ways.  Rivero was being used in high leverage situations most of the season then Watson was blowing it.  Now, Rivero is the closer and Watson and company are blowing it before the 9th and people question where was Rivero.  It's one or the other...



(You are right, I can't name 32 teams)
I don't think people want it both  ways. There are just 2 different schools of thought. My preference is that the best reliever be used as needed. Last night they needed a strike out in the 7th vs LH batters. Watson did ok but the ground out scored a run. Then the struggling Hudson loses the game. Meanwhile they have a Chapmanesque LH reliever who throws 102 but doesn't get used. In games where Rivero hadn't been needed prior to the 9th. he can slam the door and get a save. But there are other times like last night when trying to avoid an earlier game threatening jam has to take priority.






Its my fault dog said there were 32 teams. I keep getting MLB mixed up with NFL and said the 32 teams in a previous post. As to using Rivero in the 7th , those first 2 batters reached base pretty quickly. I think it would have been tough for Hurdle to have him ready to pitch in that inning. You and I disagree on when and how you should use a BP guy that is heads and shoulders better than the other pitchers but you have to consider that you can't just keep Rivero "warm" in the BP for high leverage spots. I do think there is good argument for both our views.
Yes, there's a trade off either way.

466B66777061763635040 wrote: I am leaning to your side with the use of the bullpen.  But people still can't have it both ways.  Rivero was being used in high leverage situations most of the season then Watson was blowing it.  Now, Rivero is the closer and Watson and company are blowing it before the 9th and people question where was Rivero.  It's one or the other...



(You are right, I can't name 32 teams)
I don't think people want it both  ways. There are just 2 different schools of thought. My preference is that the best reliever be used as needed. Last night they needed a strike out in the 7th vs LH batters. Watson did ok but the ground out scored a run. Then the struggling Hudson loses the game. Meanwhile they have a Chapmanesque LH reliever who throws 102 but doesn't get used. In games where Rivero hadn't been needed prior to the 9th. he can slam the door and get a save. But there are other times like last night when trying to avoid an earlier game threatening jam has to take priority.






Its my fault dog said there were 32 teams. I keep getting MLB mixed up with NFL and said the 32 teams in a previous post. As to using Rivero in the 7th , those first 2 batters reached base pretty quickly. I think it would have been tough for Hurdle to have him ready to pitch in that inning. You and I disagree on when and how you should use a BP guy that is heads and shoulders better than the other pitchers but you have to consider that you can't just keep Rivero "warm" in the BP for high leverage spots. I do think there is good argument for both our views.
Yes, there's a trade off either way.




But no matter what way you go, you certainly can't have one guy pitch every time one of those situations come up.



I'd like rivero still in the fireman role with with Nicasio "closing" but either way.

Which goes back to what Aaron said. We have 3 bullpen arms which are arguably competent. That needs fixed. While I am hoping that Santana can get adapted to the majors quickly and become another reliable option, you really cannot rely on a rookie to be able do that.

Who are the three bullpen guys?

Nicaso, Hudson, & Rivero. All three have been very good (Hudson since May 1).

7F7A7D7B7379607D7467616C150 wrote: Which goes back to what Aaron said.  We have 3 bullpen arms which are arguably competent.  That needs fixed.  While I am hoping that Santana can get adapted to the majors quickly and become another reliable option, you really cannot rely on a rookie to be able do that.
Unfortunately this year can't rely on established veterans either.

5373607D7C120 wrote: I don't have an issue with how Hurdle has managed his bullpen this season.



I do, however, have an issue with the pathetic bullpen that NH built.
You must like to lose if you like the way Hurdle has managed the bullpen.

5A424047475041465B5A4C290 wrote: I don't have an issue with how Hurdle has managed his bullpen this season.



I do, however, have an issue with the pathetic bullpen that NH built.
You must like to lose if you like the way Hurdle has managed the bullpen. 


What would you have done in this game?

404B434F4A4B501513645D454C4B4B0A474B240 wrote: I don't have an issue with how Hurdle has managed his bullpen this season.



I do, however, have an issue with the pathetic bullpen that NH built.
You must like to lose if you like the way Hurdle has managed the bullpen. 


What would you have done in this game? 






If anything , he did a nice job with the BP in that game. Ended up with Hudson going at Santana and had Nicasio and Rivero left to finish. If anything he could have maybe lifted Williams after the leadoff single ? But hindsight is always 20-20.