OnlyBucs

6A4F4C4C59724F474552200 wrote: What bothers me the most is losing, particularly in a season when the division (and not just a wild card) is up for grabs.



Some particular things that bother me:



Team's failure to acquire a AAAA outfielder when Marte was suspended, Polanco was ailing and Cutch was slumping.   Really, there was no one better than Ortiz available?



The team's reliance on veteran relievers.  Benoit is an arsonist, Hudson often gets hit and hit hard, and the Cards toyed with LeBlanc in the 9th last night.   At the same time, the Pirates have a bevy of young starters who are now ripping up the league at Indianapolis.   While I don't know if someone among Brault, Glasnow, Kingham and Holmes is the answer, I can't imagine any of them pitching worse than any of the trio noted above. 



The lack of offense and the failure to try and generate more offense.  Really, Chris Stewart starts when Diaz is available?  If others were ripping it up perhaps Stewart gets the veteranoisity call, but few hitters are currently ripping.   Also, anyone else willing to bet that Marte will not hit another home run this year.  Marte is starting to look more like the Pirates' version of Billy Hamilton. 



My hopes for this season tanked quite a while ago but then there appeared to be an opportunity when the team reeled off some wins in July and clearly was in striking distance of 1st.  That enthusiasm now appears to be little more than a mirage. 



2017 is turning out to be one frustrating season. 
Valid points Mainer!

Absolutely no reason for Stewart to be starting over Diaz when this offense has been putrid.

Secondly, Benoit, LeBlanc, and Hudson should be dropped off the roster immediately before any more damage can be done. Recall Glasnow, Brault (they have been lights out; no reason to be in AAA with the big club struggling) and a third reliever from Indy.




this team held on to Bastardo because of money. There is no way they let Hudson go now. He will at least make it to spring training unless dealt. Maybe he could be packaged with Hutchison back to Jays for McGuire.



It is very frustrating that the Bucs have had so much pitching problems and because of Searage's past successes I think it has more to do with the players than the coach regarding pitching.

303B333F3A3B206563142D353C3B3B7A373B540 wrote: Fellow Bucco Fans, I feel your pain. We have had teams in the past who were marginally talented and teams that were put together out of desperation. But the team on the field has true potential. Such a shame that the trio of "No Deal Neal" and "Bottom Line Bob" are doing zip to improve the club. This offseason, they will let another good player go and say it was due to their being a small market team and not able to compete. Probably scoure the minor for another pitcher to work into the bullpen mix and call it an offseason as they just can't bare to let prospects go or trade any talent...While 3rd base needs attention, our bullpen stinks outside of Rivero, and we desperately need a 4th outfielder...Milwaukee is competing and doing a fine job of it. Our Front Office needs to be recognized for their lack of support. Shameful I tell you! Simply shameful that they can't acquire talent to support the current club. Benoit in the bullpen has been like throwing gasoline on an open flame. I don't have an answer, but it sure sticks to high heaven the way this club is being run...Dave Littlefield was an idiot...But Neal and Bob have Littlefied beat in my opinion. Talk about spinning a politically correct story, Neal and Bob looked destined for politics if their Pirate jobs go down the drain... >:(   


Questions:



What player will they let go and say it was due to small market finances?



Is Huntington worse than Littlefield?




NH is better than Littlefield. That isn't saying much. My 14-year old son is better than Littlefield too. The dude was horrid. Anything is better. NH has made some very sound acquisitions over the years. However, he has missed some golden opportunities to make deals to increase the talent level within the organization and will continue to do so because he thinks this team can compete for the division title - which is a joke. Our offseason moves - resign Nova, sign Hudson and Gosselin. Enough said. Sick of the small market excuse. KC went the extra mile when they were close and got the title. Pittsburgh on the other hand ...

6C676F6366677C393F487169606767266B67080 wrote: I get that, but can't you say the same about the Cardinals, Cubs, and Brewers?  Even the Reds?
3 of those teams are at least 4 games ahead of the Bucs.

1C3A3B2C3A2A590 wrote: I get that, but can't you say the same about the Cardinals, Cubs, and Brewers?  Even the Reds?
3 of those teams are at least 4 games ahead of the Bucs. All 3 of those teams are better then the Pirates too. I would look to love Marte if I'm the Pirates he looks like he is totally disinterested and completely out of it.

684F5E5A5F427D495E5F5F423B0 wrote: I get that, but can't you say the same about the Cardinals, Cubs, and Brewers?  Even the Reds?
3 of those teams are at least 4 games ahead of the Bucs. All 3 of those teams are better then the Pirates too. I would look to love Marte if I'm the Pirates he looks like he is totally disinterested and completely out of it.


who thought in September of 2015 that the Bucs would be where they are now? I certainly didn't.

The thing that most annoys me is the Pirates cry poverty at every turn, yet spend $5 million on Hudson and $5.2 million on Rodriguez.  I doubt using guys like Santana and Moroff, as just two examples, would yield that much worse production. 



So, let's say they paid those guys league minimum, that's roughly $1.2 million between the two.



They are paying Hudson and Rodriguez $10.2 million (I realize the math isn't quite that simple, but bear with me...).  Now, taking NH at his word, who said repeatedly, "There is room in the budget to add to the team," then I'm going to assume that Rodriguez was that money, and not the money they "found" when Kang and Marte couldn't play.  And that money, and now you'e got roughly $15.5 million, I believe.  If Nutting would just loosen the purse strings for $5 million, now you've got an extra $20 million to play with.



What can you do with an extra $20 million?  Take a look at this website.  http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/arizona-diam ... roll/2018/



This is just the D-Backs, but you can put any team in.  In short, $20 million can get you almost any player in MLB.



It's not that the Pirates are poor (in the economic sense...they are poor in the sense of talent relative to the rest of MLB, but that's another story).  It's that they throw money away.  $5 million for a reliever that gets hammered.  $5.2 million for a back-up infielder (or worse, a guy they actually plan on starting).  $4.25 million for another back-up infielder (Freese) and $6.25 million this year.  Roughly $2.475 for Benoit this year.



That's a ton of money being thrown an mediocrity, guys whose production could more or less be replicated by guys in the minors.  Heck, in some cases...cough, cough...Benoit...cough, cough...you couldn't possibly do worse with an MiLB guy.  But yet, there they are crying "We're poor!  We're poor!" at every turn, talking about how they "will never win the offseason," and start the year behind the eight-ball, and are at a systemic disadvantage.



Now, as I've stated numerous times, but will state again for the record, I hate the salary structure of MLB, but it is what it is, and I'm a fan, and I want the Pirates to win.  So, I tolerate it.



But, seriously, add those salaries up, and that's roughly $24 million, plus whatever they are paying S-Rod this year.  Add in Kang and Marte, and you've got nearly $30 million.



I work with impoverished people all the time, and I'll gladly help them with basic needs, even out of my own pocket if need-be.  But, I won't help someone who rolls into my parking lot in a new car (had somebody drive in in a new Cadillac Escalade once), talking on an iPhone 7, with flashy jewelry.  In other words, priorities...if you have enough money to buy an Escalade, you have enough money to feed your kids. 



If the Pirates have enough money to spend on the above fodder, they have enough money to spend on a real, bonafide, MLB-quality player.



I'm so sick and tired of this (dis)organization.

090102352306212E400 wrote: The thing that most annoys me is the Pirates cry poverty at every turn, yet spend $5 million on Hudson and $5.2 million on Rodriguez.  I doubt using guys like Santana and Moroff, as just two examples, would yield that much worse production. 



So, let's say they paid those guys league minimum, that's roughly $1.2 million between the two.



They are paying Hudson and Rodriguez $10.2 million (I realize the math isn't quite that simple, but bear with me...).  Now, taking NH at his word, who said repeatedly, "There is room in the budget to add to the team," then I'm going to assume that Rodriguez was that money, and not the money they "found" when Kang and Marte couldn't play.  And that money, and now you'e got roughly $15.5 million, I believe.  If Nutting would just loosen the purse strings for $5 million, now you've got an extra $20 million to play with.



What can you do with an extra $20 million?  Take a look at this website.  http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/arizona-diam ... roll/2018/



This is just the D-Backs, but you can put any team in.  In short, $20 million can get you almost any player in MLB.



It's not that the Pirates are poor (in the economic sense...they are poor in the sense of talent relative to the rest of MLB, but that's another story).  It's that they throw money away.  $5 million for a reliever that gets hammered.  $5.2 million for a back-up infielder (or worse, a guy they actually plan on starting).  $4.25 million for another back-up infielder (Freese) and $6.25 million this year.  Roughly $2.475 for Benoit this year.



That's a ton of money being thrown an mediocrity, guys whose production could more or less be replicated by guys in the minors.  Heck, in some cases...cough, cough...Benoit...cough, cough...you couldn't possibly do worse with an MiLB guy.  But yet, there they are crying "We're poor!  We're poor!" at every turn, talking about how they "will never win the offseason," and start the year behind the eight-ball, and are at a systemic disadvantage.



Now, as I've stated numerous times, but will state again for the record, I hate the salary structure of MLB, but it is what it is, and I'm a fan, and I want the Pirates to win.  So, I tolerate it.



But, seriously, add those salaries up, and that's roughly $24 million, plus whatever they are paying S-Rod this year.  Add in Kang and Marte, and you've got nearly $30 million.



I work with impoverished people all the time, and I'll gladly help them with basic needs, even out of my own pocket if need-be.  But, I won't help someone who rolls into my parking lot in a new car (had somebody drive in in a new Cadillac Escalade once), talking on an iPhone 7, with flashy jewelry.  In other words, priorities...if you have enough money to buy an Escalade, you have enough money to feed your kids. 



If the Pirates have enough money to spend on the above fodder, they have enough money to spend on a real, bonafide, MLB-quality player.



I'm so sick and tired of this (dis)organization.


Aren't you arguing against yourself though as far as NH's ability as a top 5 gm? Supposedly he decides where the salary money is spent. In general I agree with your point, the Bucs spend a high percentage of payroll on back up type players or mediocre starters rather than paying more for a greater chance of quality.



Paying S-Rod that much may make sense if you have $120 million to spend. IT doesn't make sense if it means the most you can pay for one player is $14 million.

725455425444370 wrote: The thing that most annoys me is the Pirates cry poverty at every turn, yet spend $5 million on Hudson and $5.2 million on Rodriguez.  I doubt using guys like Santana and Moroff, as just two examples, would yield that much worse production. 



So, let's say they paid those guys league minimum, that's roughly $1.2 million between the two.



They are paying Hudson and Rodriguez $10.2 million (I realize the math isn't quite that simple, but bear with me...).  Now, taking NH at his word, who said repeatedly, "There is room in the budget to add to the team," then I'm going to assume that Rodriguez was that money, and not the money they "found" when Kang and Marte couldn't play.  And that money, and now you'e got roughly $15.5 million, I believe.  If Nutting would just loosen the purse strings for $5 million, now you've got an extra $20 million to play with.



What can you do with an extra $20 million?  Take a look at this website.  http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/arizona-diam ... roll/2018/



This is just the D-Backs, but you can put any team in.  In short, $20 million can get you almost any player in MLB.



It's not that the Pirates are poor (in the economic sense...they are poor in the sense of talent relative to the rest of MLB, but that's another story).  It's that they throw money away.  $5 million for a reliever that gets hammered.  $5.2 million for a back-up infielder (or worse, a guy they actually plan on starting).  $4.25 million for another back-up infielder (Freese) and $6.25 million this year.  Roughly $2.475 for Benoit this year.



That's a ton of money being thrown an mediocrity, guys whose production could more or less be replicated by guys in the minors.  Heck, in some cases...cough, cough...Benoit...cough, cough...you couldn't possibly do worse with an MiLB guy.  But yet, there they are crying "We're poor!  We're poor!" at every turn, talking about how they "will never win the offseason," and start the year behind the eight-ball, and are at a systemic disadvantage.



Now, as I've stated numerous times, but will state again for the record, I hate the salary structure of MLB, but it is what it is, and I'm a fan, and I want the Pirates to win.  So, I tolerate it.



But, seriously, add those salaries up, and that's roughly $24 million, plus whatever they are paying S-Rod this year.  Add in Kang and Marte, and you've got nearly $30 million.



I work with impoverished people all the time, and I'll gladly help them with basic needs, even out of my own pocket if need-be.  But, I won't help someone who rolls into my parking lot in a new car (had somebody drive in in a new Cadillac Escalade once), talking on an iPhone 7, with flashy jewelry.  In other words, priorities...if you have enough money to buy an Escalade, you have enough money to feed your kids. 



If the Pirates have enough money to spend on the above fodder, they have enough money to spend on a real, bonafide, MLB-quality player.



I'm so sick and tired of this (dis)organization.


Aren't you arguing against yourself though as far as NH's ability as a top 5 gm?  Supposedly he decides where the salary money is spent.  In general I agree with your point, the Bucs spend a high percentage of payroll on back up type players or mediocre starters rather than paying more for a greater chance of quality.



Paying S-Rod that much may make sense if you have $120 million to spend.  IT doesn't make sense if it means the most you can pay for one player is $14 million.


You know, honestly, as I was typing that out, I was thinking the same thing.  I'm beginning to think I'm wrong on that, too.  I've already been converted on Nutting and Hurdle, may as well add NH to the mix.  Perhaps part of it is wanting to cling to some vestige of hope, that there is hope.



I honestly hate this team.  The only thing I can compare it to is a drug addict that knows he should kick his heroin addiction.  Throw away your drugs, throw away your needles, check yourself into rehab, whatever it takes...but in the end, can't do it.



Thinking very, very seriously about cutting MLB.tv out of the budget next year.  No way I'm paying to watch this garbage any more.

030B083F290C2B244A0 wrote: The thing that most annoys me is the Pirates cry poverty at every turn, yet spend $5 million on Hudson and $5.2 million on Rodriguez.  I doubt using guys like Santana and Moroff, as just two examples, would yield that much worse production. 



So, let's say they paid those guys league minimum, that's roughly $1.2 million between the two.



They are paying Hudson and Rodriguez $10.2 million (I realize the math isn't quite that simple, but bear with me...).  Now, taking NH at his word, who said repeatedly, "There is room in the budget to add to the team," then I'm going to assume that Rodriguez was that money, and not the money they "found" when Kang and Marte couldn't play.  And that money, and now you'e got roughly $15.5 million, I believe.  If Nutting would just loosen the purse strings for $5 million, now you've got an extra $20 million to play with.



What can you do with an extra $20 million?  Take a look at this website.  http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/arizona-diam ... roll/2018/



This is just the D-Backs, but you can put any team in.  In short, $20 million can get you almost any player in MLB.



It's not that the Pirates are poor (in the economic sense...they are poor in the sense of talent relative to the rest of MLB, but that's another story).  It's that they throw money away.  $5 million for a reliever that gets hammered.  $5.2 million for a back-up infielder (or worse, a guy they actually plan on starting).  $4.25 million for another back-up infielder (Freese) and $6.25 million this year.  Roughly $2.475 for Benoit this year.



That's a ton of money being thrown an mediocrity, guys whose production could more or less be replicated by guys in the minors.  Heck, in some cases...cough, cough...Benoit...cough, cough...you couldn't possibly do worse with an MiLB guy.  But yet, there they are crying "We're poor!  We're poor!" at every turn, talking about how they "will never win the offseason," and start the year behind the eight-ball, and are at a systemic disadvantage.



Now, as I've stated numerous times, but will state again for the record, I hate the salary structure of MLB, but it is what it is, and I'm a fan, and I want the Pirates to win.  So, I tolerate it.



But, seriously, add those salaries up, and that's roughly $24 million, plus whatever they are paying S-Rod this year.  Add in Kang and Marte, and you've got nearly $30 million.



I work with impoverished people all the time, and I'll gladly help them with basic needs, even out of my own pocket if need-be.  But, I won't help someone who rolls into my parking lot in a new car (had somebody drive in in a new Cadillac Escalade once), talking on an iPhone 7, with flashy jewelry.  In other words, priorities...if you have enough money to buy an Escalade, you have enough money to feed your kids. 



If the Pirates have enough money to spend on the above fodder, they have enough money to spend on a real, bonafide, MLB-quality player.



I'm so sick and tired of this (dis)organization.
The problem is they don't know how to judge talent that's plain to see.

Granderson, incidentally, was traded to the Dodgers for cash and a player to be named later. No idea why the Dodgers think they need another outfielder, except as maybe another veteran bat off the bench.