OnlyBucs

416467677259646C6E790B0 wrote: Firing Clint does absolutely nothing but deflect away from the real issues. We all know that the FO punted on this season. That is now a fact. The FO gave him this hodge podge of a team and he tried to make it work by giving everyone a chance; very similar in fact to how Leyland managed his bench.



You berate him for how he used the bullpen, but honestly, how could anyone have been successful with the awful performances turned in night after night by everyone not named Rivero.



I totally agree with the fact that the team was lacking in fundamentals. Some of that blame can be put on Hurdle and the Coaches; but my God, these are professional baseball players that have spent their whole life for the most part playing this game. If they don't know fundamentals by the time they reach the majors then you have to throw most of the blame on them.



Clint has been a pillar in the community, the players respect him. His career and personal life's ups and downs has made him very relatable. Nobody was saying that Clint was terrible when the Pirates were in the playoffs for 3 straight years and he was winning Manager of the year.



The fresh blood we need is an infusion of additional talent and good performance by our next wave of prospects not the firing of Hurdle


Agreed.



I am coming to the conclusion that most managers are the same with their stupid moves. There ar ea bunch of strategies I hate, but are used by every team (infield in, no doubles, double switch, not having a lefty & righty warmed up, use of best bullpen pitcher, runners not following the fielders, wheel play). I do wish there was a great in-game manager. I just don't know who (Bob Walk would be my choice). I have questioned Hurdle just as much as his opponent.



Hurdle is respected by his players, he is a true leader. I never believed in leadership until Hurdle came along. You never hear bad things out of that clubhouse about Hurdle. That isn't the case around the league or on past Pirates' managers. Overall, the players don't act up or cause problems. Sure, a few minor blow ups to the media here and there, but still pretty rare.



I don't think Hurdle is great by no means. I just don't know if a new manager manages a game any differently. When things go bad, everything is exposed. Just like his players, Hurdle also had a bad year managing in my opinion.

This FO is not going to provide its manager with talent comparable to other contenders. So they need their manager to get the absolute best out of the roster. Sure, Hurdle is nice, respected as a pillar in the community. And it's not his fault players arrive with poor fundamentals. But it's up to him and his coaches to instill the right fundamentals when he encounters that situation and he falls woefully short as bad plays and bad decisions constantly hinder his players. His lineup decisions are often counterproductive. His handling of the bullpen is bad. Why did it take so long to pull Watson from the closer role while games were being needlessly lost? Because he makes a formula and doesn't want to stray from it. That might work on a more talented roster. But the Pirates need someone special. I'll take

Hurdle as a neighbor any day. But not as a manager.

2328202C2928337670073E262F2828692428470 wrote: Firing Clint does absolutely nothing but deflect away from the real issues. We all know that the FO punted on this season. That is now a fact. The FO gave him this hodge podge of a team and he tried to make it work by giving everyone a chance; very similar in fact to how Leyland managed his bench.



You berate him for how he used the bullpen, but honestly, how could anyone have been successful with the awful performances turned in night after night by everyone not named Rivero.



I totally agree with the fact that the team was lacking in fundamentals. Some of that blame can be put on Hurdle and the Coaches; but my God, these are professional baseball players that have spent their whole life for the most part playing this game. If they don't know fundamentals by the time they reach the majors then you have to throw most of the blame on them.



Clint has been a pillar in the community, the players respect him. His career and personal life's ups and downs has made him very relatable. Nobody was saying that Clint was terrible when the Pirates were in the playoffs for 3 straight years and he was winning Manager of the year.



The fresh blood we need is an infusion of additional talent and good performance by our next wave of prospects not the firing of Hurdle


Agreed.



I am coming to the conclusion that most managers are the same with their stupid moves.  There ar ea bunch of strategies I hate, but are used by every team (infield in, no doubles, double switch, not having a lefty & righty warmed up, use of best bullpen pitcher, runners not following the fielders, wheel play).  I do wish there was a great in-game manager.  I just don't know who (Bob Walk would be my choice).  I have questioned Hurdle just as much as his opponent.



Hurdle is respected by his players, he is a true leader.  I never believed in leadership until Hurdle came along.  You never hear bad things out of that clubhouse about Hurdle.  That isn't the case around the league or on past Pirates' managers.  Overall, the players don't act up or cause problems.  Sure, a few minor blow ups to the media here and there, but still pretty rare. 



I don't think Hurdle is great by no means.  I just don't know if a new manager manages a game any differently.  When things go bad, everything is exposed.  Just like his players, Hurdle also had a bad year managing in my opinion.




If all managers are the same, why are there so many changes every year? Could it be that just changing managers sometimes works because it brings in a new personality even if the decisions the manager makes are not that much different than previous manager?



Sometimes you just need a change in leadership to get the employees attention and as is often said it is easier to change the manager than to change 25 players.

I don't know that answer on why managers are changed so much. Don't get me wrong, I believe in coaching. I think it matters. I also think one can be a bad manager on a good team and a good manager on a bad team.



If you want to move Hurdle for his in game managing, there might not be much difference is all I am saying.

4F626F7E79687F3F3C0D0 wrote: This FO is not going to provide its manager with talent comparable to other contenders. So they need their manager to get the absolute best out of the roster. Sure, Hurdle is nice, respected as a pillar in the community. And it's not his fault players arrive with poor fundamentals. But it's up to him and his coaches to instill the right fundamentals when he encounters that situation and he falls woefully short as bad plays and bad decisions constantly hinder his players. His lineup decisions are often counterproductive. His handling of the bullpen is bad. Why did it take so long to pull Watson from the closer role while games were being needlessly lost? Because he makes a formula and doesn't want to stray from it. That might work on a more talented roster. But the Pirates need someone special.  I'll take

Hurdle as a neighbor any day. But not as a manager.   


Did anyone complain when Hurdle managed the bullpen in 2013,2014,2015 when we had one of the best bullpens in MLB.

The FO got rid of Melanson; Hurdle went with Watson. A logical choice as he had been the 8th inning set up man and had great success. Watson performed poorly, Hurdle gave him a fair shot. Did you want to pull him immediately. Rivero was new. Maybe they wanted to see more of him before handing over the closer role.

The FO dumped Benoit on Hurdle. He has to use him, give him a chance. He gave him a chance he sucked and they DL'd his butt.

I don't blame Hurdle one iota for the bullpen failures. The relievers failed to perform when given the opportunity. They failed collectively as a lot.