OnlyBucs

174157434C56464D4057654248444C490B46250 wrote: Pirates Fan Council just put out a survey on who you thought was the best Pirate at each position that you saw. I'm sure there will be tons of votes for Honus Wagner at SS, but I'm guessing those voters either rose from the dead or didn't understand the question.



Just one for each position, just one starting pitcher, no relief pitchers, and the OF was by position, not just any three OF.



My pics were:

SP- Drabek (tough one for me to take him over Candy)

C- Sanguillen

1B- Stargell

2B- Walker

3B- Madlock

SS- Bell

LF-Bonds

CF-Cutch

RF-Clemente






Even though I'm a few delicate years older Surge, I mostly agree with your list.  I might replace Drabek with Vern Law or even Steve Blass, I'd choose Maz over Walker, and Gene Alley would be my SS, in spite of an injury that sadly cut short what was shaping up to be a very good career.  There's a case to be made for Dick Groat, too.  An MVP season ain't too shabby.
i would have to go with Frank nThomas at Third. The team was terrible and I am sure they pitched around him,

2274627679637378756250777D71797C3E73100 wrote: Pirates Fan Council just put out a survey on who you thought was the best Pirate at each position that you saw. I'm sure there will be tons of votes for Honus Wagner at SS, but I'm guessing those voters either rose from the dead or didn't understand the question.



Just one for each position, just one starting pitcher, no relief pitchers, and the OF was by position, not just any three OF.



My pics were:

SP- Drabek (tough one for me to take him over Candy)

C- Sanguillen

1B- Stargell

2B- Walker

3B- Madlock

SS- Bell

LF-Bonds

CF-Cutch

RF-Clemente






Even though I'm a few delicate years older Surge, I mostly agree with your list.  I might replace Drabek with Vern Law or even Steve Blass, I'd choose Maz over Walker, and Gene Alley would be my SS, in spite of an injury that sadly cut short what was shaping up to be a very good career.  There's a case to be made for Dick Groat, too.  An MVP season ain't too shabby.


Here are my picks. Try as I might, I could not place Al Oliver on the team. Bonds and Cutch were just too good to bump. Despite Oliver's very good numbers, they were simply not good enough. Same with Madlock over Hebner, though Hebner played for the Bucs a little longer but was platooned a good bit.



SP- Candelaria

C- Sanguillen

1B- Stargell

2B- Mazeroski

3B- Madlock

SS- Alley

LF-Bonds

CF-Cutch

RF-Clemente

SP-Law

C- Sanguillen

1B- Stargell

2B- Mazeroski

3B- Madlock

SS- Groat

LF-Bonds

CF-Cutch

RF-Clemente

5D707D6C6B7A6D2D2E1F0 wrote: Some of you might have seen this. The MLB has been running this. They are showing the top 5. For instance, Jason Kendall was voted their top catcher. Manny Sanguillen #2 Tony Pena #3 and Smokey Burgess #5 Never heard of the other one.

1B- Obviously Willie Stargell. The other 4- Just shows how bad the position has been 2. Jake Beckley 1888-1896 3. George Grantham 1925-1931.(possibly Shedman saw him play 4. Eddie Fletcher 1937-1947 5. Gus Suhr 1930 -1939      

The salaries of the 2-5 together wouldn't equal what Doc made in his final year of teaching


I guess it was close between Stargell and Jaso.  I would rate Sanguillen over Kendall.


interestingly, Stargell didn't make the full time move to 1st base until 1975. I've read about the others, but I've often wondered why bob Robertson doesn't get more consideration among the better Pirates 1st basemen. Historically though, they never had long-term answers at the position. Donn Clendenon seems to be forgotten a lot, as does Dick Stuart.



Catcher? Sanguillen over Kendall any day. There's always Green Weenies favorite, Jim Pagliaroni (I always liked him too). You could consider Ed Ott among the better ones, and Mike Lavalliere.



Who did they have at 3rd base after Traynor? Hoak?, Elliott? Hebner? Madlock?


First base, along with right field and third base, have especially been big problems for the Pirates in recent years going back to 1993. It shouldn't come as a surprise since those are power positions, and that's around the time when the price of free agents had the franchise curl up in the corner.  Kevin Young had a decent year or two, and then seemed to lose his interest.  Adam LaRoche barely made an impact.  Derek Bell and Raul Mondesi were supposed to help but neither of those guys can ever show their face in this city.  Polanco has been terribly inconsistent and can't stay on the field.  Aramis Ramirez was gone before he started to do real damage.  And Pedro Alvarez had one good season.  It hasn't been pretty.
Derek Bell what a fiasco- If I recall, "Operation Shutdown". Is that correct?


Right you are, Dave.  Bell joins a long line of acquired players who either didn't show up at all or, when they did, would have done us all a favor had they not, like Bell.
The problem with nearly all those players was that their careers were about over when acquired, they had little left and made Pittsburgh the final stop in their MLB career. Bell, Pat Meares, Mike Benjamin, Doug Strange, Joe Randa, Dale Sveum, Amos Otis, Ken Reitz, Sixto Lezcano, Chris Stynes, Benito Santiago, Jeromy Burnitz, Ramon Vazquez, Craig Monroe, Rod Barajas, Brandon Inge, Corey Hart all signed on with the Pirates for one last season of MLB before hanging up the cleats.   




Don't forget Lonnie Chisenhall!



On second thought, let's forget that ever happened. His "injury" gave Bryan Reynolds at bats.

Maybe Honus Wagner at SS? Kiner in LF? Paul Waner deserves some consideration in the OF. Somebody had to chime in for the old-timers.

091E083F2929254A0 wrote: Maybe Honus Wagner at SS?  Kiner in LF?  Paul Waner deserves some consideration in the OF.  Somebody had to chime in for the old-timers. 


The list was limited to players personally seen. Otherwise, you're correct. Wagner, Waner, and Kiner would certainly get votes.

7E283E2A253F2F24293E0C2B212D2520622F4C0 wrote: Maybe Honus Wagner at SS?  Kiner in LF?  Paul Waner deserves some consideration in the OF.  Somebody had to chime in for the old-timers. 


The list was limited to players personally seen.  Otherwise, you're correct.  Wagner, Waner, and Kiner would certainly get votes.


Well Doc, you know Kiner would never get my vote!

466D7A750C0 wrote: Maybe Honus Wagner at SS?  Kiner in LF?  Paul Waner deserves some consideration in the OF.  Somebody had to chime in for the old-timers. 


The list was limited to players personally seen.  Otherwise, you're correct.  Wagner, Waner, and Kiner would certainly get votes.


Well Doc, you know Kiner would never get my vote!


I remember you relating that story. Maybe you can tell it again for the folks on this board. It's too bad he was such a jerk. Very disappointing about a player so many people in Pittsburgh loved.

5A6461697A626269496C7B680D0 wrote: Some of you might have seen this. The MLB has been running this. They are showing the top 5. For instance, Jason Kendall was voted their top catcher. Manny Sanguillen #2 Tony Pena #3 and Smokey Burgess #5 Never heard of the other one.

1B- Obviously Willie Stargell. The other 4- Just shows how bad the position has been 2. Jake Beckley 1888-1896 3. George Grantham 1925-1931.(possibly Shedman saw him play 4. Eddie Fletcher 1937-1947 5. Gus Suhr 1930 -1939      

The salaries of the 2-5 together wouldn't equal what Doc made in his final year of teaching


I guess it was close between Stargell and Jaso.  I would rate Sanguillen over Kendall.


interestingly, Stargell didn't make the full time move to 1st base until 1975. I've read about the others, but I've often wondered why bob Robertson doesn't get more consideration among the better Pirates 1st basemen. Historically though, they never had long-term answers at the position. Donn Clendenon seems to be forgotten a lot, as does Dick Stuart.



Catcher? Sanguillen over Kendall any day. There's always Green Weenies favorite, Jim Pagliaroni (I always liked him too). You could consider Ed Ott among the better ones, and Mike Lavalliere.



Who did they have at 3rd base after Traynor? Hoak?, Elliott? Hebner? Madlock?


First base, along with right field and third base, have especially been big problems for the Pirates in recent years going back to 1993. It shouldn't come as a surprise since those are power positions, and that's around the time when the price of free agents had the franchise curl up in the corner.  Kevin Young had a decent year or two, and then seemed to lose his interest.  Adam LaRoche barely made an impact.  Derek Bell and Raul Mondesi were supposed to help but neither of those guys can ever show their face in this city.  Polanco has been terribly inconsistent and can't stay on the field.  Aramis Ramirez was gone before he started to do real damage.  And Pedro Alvarez had one good season.  It hasn't been pretty.
Derek Bell what a fiasco- If I recall, "Operation Shutdown". Is that correct?


Bell was only a symptom. The problem was the idiots who brought him here.

614C41505746511112230 wrote: Some of you might have seen this. The MLB has been running this. They are showing the top 5. For instance, Jason Kendall was voted their top catcher. Manny Sanguillen #2 Tony Pena #3 and Smokey Burgess #5 Never heard of the other one.

1B- Obviously Willie Stargell. The other 4- Just shows how bad the position has been 2. Jake Beckley 1888-1896 3. George Grantham 1925-1931.(possibly Shedman saw him play 4. Eddie Fletcher 1937-1947 5. Gus Suhr 1930 -1939      

The salaries of the 2-5 together wouldn't equal what Doc made in his final year of teaching


I guess it was close between Stargell and Jaso.  I would rate Sanguillen over Kendall.




You mean- the great Jim Pagliaroni didn't make it? Some poll.