OnlyBucs

1E333E2F28392E6E6D5C0 wrote: Pitching for another team has to be a shot in the arm for a pitcher coming from the Pirates. A Pirate pitcher takes the mound knowing there is little chance of winning. His team is weaker. They won't hit, field, run, coach or manage well. Giving up just 1 or 2 runs can lose the game. They nibble because they can't afford any mistakes over the plate. And even with a strong pitching effort, the starter will be lifted at or near 100 pitches while the game is turned over to relievers who might not even make other teams.



When they leave the Pirates, they take the mound confident that if they pitch well they can and should win the game. Musgrove started that game on a 4-3 team and the 3 losses were by a combined total of 4 runs. And the Padres gave him a 3-0 lead after 3 innings. And after 8 innings he had thrown 103 pitches but his manager let him finish anyway.



Pitching for the Pirates has to be a very different experience with a different mindset. Mitch Keller starts today for the 1-6 Pirates. They lost the last 3 by a combined total of 22 runs.



But it's not just a different mindset that effects pitchers after they leave the Pirates. MLB history shows many good, even great pitchers take 4-5 years before reaching their full potential. Last year was Musgrove's 5th year and despite a 1-5 record he improved to a career best 3.86 ERA. He now says that was a big year for him in terms of refining his mechanics. And now with 5 years of experience behind him and a better environment in which to toil he looks like he's reaching a new level. The MLB free agency lets players walk after 6 years. That's when most pitchers are just reaching their ceiling. Since the Pirates can't or won't re-sign them, they have to trade them in year 4 or 5 to get something for them. Just in time to see them mature with their new team into the pitcher the Pirates hoped they would be for them.   




I watched the last 3 innings of the no hitter. Musgrove seemed to throw way more off speed than he did with the Pirates. Bottom line is way too many pitchers have thrived after leaving this team . It has to be a coaching - development issue.If you play in any high stakes fantasy baseball leagues , make sure you take Keller after the Pirates trade him for a sack of potatoes.

3D3A2B382B7A774E0 wrote: Pitching for another team has to be a shot in the arm for a pitcher coming from the Pirates. A Pirate pitcher takes the mound knowing there is little chance of winning. His team is weaker. They won't hit, field, run, coach or manage well. Giving up just 1 or 2 runs can lose the game. They nibble because they can't afford any mistakes over the plate. And even with a strong pitching effort, the starter will be lifted at or near 100 pitches while the game is turned over to relievers who might not even make other teams.



When they leave the Pirates, they take the mound confident that if they pitch well they can and should win the game. Musgrove started that game on a 4-3 team and the 3 losses were by a combined total of 4 runs. And the Padres gave him a 3-0 lead after 3 innings. And after 8 innings he had thrown 103 pitches but his manager let him finish anyway.



Pitching for the Pirates has to be a very different experience with a different mindset. Mitch Keller starts today for the 1-6 Pirates. They lost the last 3 by a combined total of 22 runs.



But it's not just a different mindset that effects pitchers after they leave the Pirates. MLB history shows many good, even great pitchers take 4-5 years before reaching their full potential. Last year was Musgrove's 5th year and despite a 1-5 record he improved to a career best 3.86 ERA. He now says that was a big year for him in terms of refining his mechanics. And now with 5 years of experience behind him and a better environment in which to toil he looks like he's reaching a new level. The MLB free agency lets players walk after 6 years. That's when most pitchers are just reaching their ceiling. Since the Pirates can't or won't re-sign them, they have to trade them in year 4 or 5 to get something for them. Just in time to see them mature with their new team into the pitcher the Pirates hoped they would be for them.   




I watched the last 3 innings of the no hitter. Musgrove seemed to throw way more off speed than he did with the Pirates. Bottom line is way too many pitchers have thrived after leaving this team . It has to be a coaching - development issue.If you play in any high stakes fantasy baseball leagues , make sure you take Keller after the Pirates trade him for a sack of potatoes.


So you’re adding the real dagger: little value returned.

Trading our best players may be a painful part of Pirate baseball, but done fairly well those same trades should be a method of sustaining a “good” organization. But the bigger sin for the Pirates is that they so often return little real value. A sure method of sustaining an awful organization.

696E78707E692E225B7C767A7277357874761B0 wrote: Pitching for another team has to be a shot in the arm for a pitcher coming from the Pirates. A Pirate pitcher takes the mound knowing there is little chance of winning. His team is weaker. They won't hit, field, run, coach or manage well. Giving up just 1 or 2 runs can lose the game. They nibble because they can't afford any mistakes over the plate. And even with a strong pitching effort, the starter will be lifted at or near 100 pitches while the game is turned over to relievers who might not even make other teams.



When they leave the Pirates, they take the mound confident that if they pitch well they can and should win the game. Musgrove started that game on a 4-3 team and the 3 losses were by a combined total of 4 runs. And the Padres gave him a 3-0 lead after 3 innings. And after 8 innings he had thrown 103 pitches but his manager let him finish anyway.



Pitching for the Pirates has to be a very different experience with a different mindset. Mitch Keller starts today for the 1-6 Pirates. They lost the last 3 by a combined total of 22 runs.



But it's not just a different mindset that effects pitchers after they leave the Pirates. MLB history shows many good, even great pitchers take 4-5 years before reaching their full potential. Last year was Musgrove's 5th year and despite a 1-5 record he improved to a career best 3.86 ERA. He now says that was a big year for him in terms of refining his mechanics. And now with 5 years of experience behind him and a better environment in which to toil he looks like he's reaching a new level. The MLB free agency lets players walk after 6 years. That's when most pitchers are just reaching their ceiling. Since the Pirates can't or won't re-sign them, they have to trade them in year 4 or 5 to get something for them. Just in time to see them mature with their new team into the pitcher the Pirates hoped they would be for them.   




I watched the last 3 innings of the no hitter. Musgrove seemed to throw way more off speed than he did with the Pirates. Bottom line is way too many pitchers have thrived after leaving this team . It has to be a coaching - development issue.If you play in any high stakes fantasy baseball leagues , make sure you take Keller after the Pirates trade him for a sack of potatoes.


So you’re adding the real dagger: little value  returned. 

Trading our best players may be a painful part of Pirate baseball, but done fairly well those same trades should be a method of sustaining a “good” organization.  But the bigger sin for the Pirates is that they so often return little real value.  A sure method of sustaining an awful organization. 
The problem with the return on trades is that the Pirates have to trade them before they reach their ceiling or lose them in free agency for nothing. Other than 2015, Cole had 4 years of fairly ordinary pitching for the Pirates. Houston was trading for a guy who had potential but was far from dominating. Musgrove had been ordinary at best, and usually not even that good. SD wasn't trading for a no-hit stud. They more likely expected a decent #4. We look now at what those players would have been worth in trades if they had been pitching as a Pirate the way they are for their new teams. But of course it doesn't work that way.