They Never Stray

[Quail]

1C213F323D373C1E3621303637530 wrote: Are you currently wearing a tinfoil hat or posting from an underground bunker?



I just can't grasp the foundation of these posts where the Pirates are identified as a propaganda institution as opposed to a baseball team.


I can understand your position. This narrative can be likened to one of those "optical illusion 3-D posters" where a person initially sees a jumble of seemingly random colors and shapes with no coherent content. Then after awhile the person squints or crosses their eyes or just zones out and a spectacular 3-D image of a world globe or a dinosaur or some such wonderful thing appears. The funny thing is that once seen it can be seen again and again without any of the difficulty it took the first time. Essentially once seen it can't be unseen.



My wife suffers from a congenital lack of depth perception in her vision, and as a result those posters never materialize into their 3-D form for her. In fact when I describe what I (and others) see she remains skeptical to the point of becoming defensive.



Some of us see patterns of behavior from the Pirate organization that connect dots of logic. Some never discern the connections.



Tomorrow we can discuss the relationship between cultural mores and the decline of the knuckleball specialist.

[OrlandoMerced]

0A2E3A32375B0 wrote: Are you currently wearing a tinfoil hat or posting from an underground bunker?



I just can't grasp the foundation of these posts where the Pirates are identified as a propaganda institution as opposed to a baseball team.


I can understand your position. This narrative can be likened to one of those "optical illusion 3-D posters" where a person initially sees a jumble of seemingly random colors and shapes with no coherent content. Then after awhile the person squints or crosses their eyes or just zones out and a spectacular 3-D image of a world globe or a dinosaur or some such wonderful thing appears. The funny thing is that once seen it can be seen again and again without any of the difficulty it took the first time. Essentially once seen it can't be unseen.



My wife suffers from a congenital lack of depth perception in her vision, and as a result those posters never materialize into their 3-D form for her. In fact when I describe what I (and others) see she remains skeptical to the point of becoming defensive. 



Some of us see patterns of behavior from the Pirate organization that connect dots of logic. Some never discern the connections.



Tomorrow we can discuss the relationship between cultural mores and the decline of the knuckleball specialist. 


At most I would concede that the Pirates have a a private position that differs from their public position. But like every competitive organization, they have to keep their actual positions secretive so they can negotiate trades and player salaries.

[dogknot17@yahoo.co]

6A4E5A52573B0 wrote:



Some of us see patterns of behavior from the Pirate organization that connect dots of logic. Some never discern the connections.



 


Some also see how this plan has worked three out of four years. Some also don't categorize what happened over the whole 20 years of losing with the current management team (Ramirez, Bell).

[rucker59@gmail.com]

68636B676263783D3B4C756D646363226F630C0 wrote:



Some of us see patterns of behavior from the Pirate organization that connect dots of logic. Some never discern the connections.



 


Some also see how this plan has worked three out of four years.  Some also don't categorize what happened over the whole 20 years of losing with the current management team (Ramirez, Bell).




I just realized the problem among fans: totally different perceptions.



You say the plan "worked".

I say the plan was "working" but has ultimately not worked (because of the dots in the matrix).

[SammyKhalifa]

70534646474F4C424746511B1B230 wrote: Sammy, I'm no analytics master but there are two "One Times" incidences in that statement.   8-)



!




Ha, yeah.  I meant in the past.  The "one times" was intentional for emphasis. 



I know your thread was meant to be lighthearted, and I'm sorry to go a tad "serious."  This just whole garbage narrative that the Pirates for some reason making up phony trades and leaking it to the press is starting to annoy me to no end though.  Apparently the Pirates, award winning national writers, local beatwriters, the Astros, Brian Cashman and the rest of the Yankees, and the White Sox organization themselves are part of some some secret cabal bent on making people think that the White Sox want more in a deal than anybody including the Pirates really think is worth for Quintana at this time. 



Again, though, sorry to make this thread a little less fun than it should be.

[SammyKhalifa]

1314020A0413545821060C00080D4F020E0C610 wrote:



I just realized the problem among fans: totally different perceptions.



You say the plan "worked".

I say the plan was "working" but has ultimately not worked (because of the dots in the matrix).






. . . yet.

[dogknot17@yahoo.co]

616670787661262A53747E727A7F3D707C7E130 wrote:



Some of us see patterns of behavior from the Pirate organization that connect dots of logic. Some never discern the connections.



 


Some also see how this plan has worked three out of four years.  Some also don't categorize what happened over the whole 20 years of losing with the current management team (Ramirez, Bell).




I just realized the problem among fans: totally different perceptions.



You say the plan "worked".

I say the plan was "working" but has ultimately not worked (because of the dots in the matrix).






Good point.



I just think once you make the Playoffs anything can happen. We have seen Wild Card teams make the World Series and win the World Series. We have seen teams with wins in the 80's go further than teams who won 90+.



That is at least why I think that way. I didn't like the moves last year, but that doesn't mean they can't be right back in it this year.

[dogknot17@yahoo.co]

Also, the Price trade to the Pirates was reported to be better. I guess that is opinion, but I doubt it was a phony report.



Here is a good link (the comments are great too):



http://www.raysindex.com/2014/08/rays-d ... rates.html



I don't remember if any names were brought up for the Pirates, but the Rays did get Nick Franklin, Willy Adames, and Drew Smyly.



Franklin hasn't done much at all. Adames is still only 20 years old. Smyly went 15-15 with a 3.95 ERA in three seasons and was just traded last week. The Rays have missed big time on their Price trade.

[Speedloader88]

I see that the type of Pirate fan that I am gets under the skin of some other types of Pirates fan. So, at the risk of further vexing those fans, let me explain why I have the relationships with the Pirates that I do.



I'm 45. My good friend is about 40. I remember an era where the Pirates were a feared organization year after year and even won a championship. Not just talked about as potentially decent, but feared! I remember times when the Pirates went from decent and then spiked to great and nearly won the NL.



I then watched them trade it all away, draft garbage, develop little, never compete and become the laughing stock of major league baseball. My son was born in the midst of this type of club. I moved away and heard the mocking of fans in other markets as they treated my Pirates the way I treat Cleveland Brown fans today. My poor son, memorized and reenacted the entire Pirates roster in his diapers in our culd-a-sac, first, Kendall, then Gilies, then........ I was then raising him in Orioles Country and that poor kid was being raised to love the Pirates. I was a little defensive about my love for the once great organization and mostly had to read about each years roster build and rumors and anything I could get my hands on to keep me up on the Pirates since I couldn't just turn them on and watch. I remember the drafts of Moskos and Van Benschoten and Bullington and on and on and on.... That, over time became reality. My Pirates were a freaking joke.



I tried to become an Orioles fan but it lasted about a half an hour. I took off my newly purchased Orioles hat and threw it in a bin because it didn't match my Pirates T-shirts.



Fast forward to my conversations in recent years and my 40 year old co-worker. Every year he gets jacked that the Pirates are gonna sign so and so, and the Pirates are trading for that guy and I just shake my head. I read the same story templates year after year (I've since moved back to Pirate Country) and recognize the same themes, half truths and outright lies about building a contender.



Damn it...... three years ago that got me! I started to believe again!!!!!!! But alas, I watched last winter as they did nothing......... nothing........ absolutely freaking nothing, even though they were losing Burnett, even though they had no first baseman, even though they guy they had told us was the next Pedro Alvarez Ruth and that he was sooo legitimate he had Scott Boras as an agent. Ahhhh, I'm letting it get under my skin again.



So my poor buddy buys the hype and the story lines and last year before the season began I did not share his enthusiasm. I looked at the dots and said that this team was worse than the team that wasn't good enough to make it the year before and UNFORTUNATELY....... I was right and he was wrong. They stunk again.



So I lead off with Pirate Derangement Syndrome. I believe they will suck and hope that I'm wrong. But alas......... I've been far more right over the years than they have proved me wrong.



Interesting fact. I am eternally optimistic in all other areas of life. I am a Pirates fan and I am a pessimist.

[SammyKhalifa]

I believe they have more work to do this offseason, Speed. They needed to last year too and it didn't get done.