515A525E5B5A410402754C545D5A5A1B565A350 wrote: I am not joking. The Royals wasted a lot of money. I would rather spend smart money than just spend money in general. People will rip on the Pirates but then praise the Royals on their spending. It just doesn't make sense.
KC had won the WS the previous year and was in the WS 2 years in a row. In the process, they had increased payroll from a Pirate-esque minuscule to middle of the pack. Their spending last year was consistent with an org that was serious about maintaining their status as a serious WS contender. You can now look back in hindsight and say they got less per $ than the Pirates. But at least KC tried. The Pirates-who haven't won a WS since 1979-didn't.
They won the World Series with a $112 million payroll.
I know why their payroll is higher now, they won and paid their players who helped them win it all. I don't blame them. The Phillies did the same thing. I think the Royals might be like the Phillies the next few years.
You can't think they did a good job with their payroll last year? They increased it big time and were a .500 team. It is more proof that spending money just to spend doesn't mean winning. People, me included, wanted the Pirates to build on their 98 win season. The Royals tried to build on their 2015 season and failed too. But its ok, they spent money!
If the Pirates win it all, I could care less what they spend for many years later if they lose. But the Royals passing $130 million doesn't mean they are making smart decisions.
There are several factors at play. It's not as if they start from scratch each year. KC went to 2 straight WS and won the 2nd one with a roster that included players on multi-year deals, just like every other MLB team. As with most teams, salaries increase from year to year and KC had great success in 2014 and 2015 with players who would be receiving further increases in 2016. So their payroll in 2016 was part of what got them to 2 straight WS and won one in 2015. Furthermore, due to MLB inflation, altho KC increased its payroll in 2016 to 146 mil, their payroll in their WS winning season of 2015 had been 132 mil (not the 112 mil you indicated) but it dropped them from 13th in 2013 to 15th in 2016. So it's not reasonable to accept their salary structure for the years they got to the WS but then scoff at them for not getting in the WS the next year while most of those same players were still under contract. By that reasoning, the Pirates are a raving success because they always keep a low payroll by avoiding a roster that could win a WS if it required increased salaries down the road, even if it resulted in a lower standing in MLB salaries due to inflation.
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
694449585F4E59191A2B0 wrote: I am not joking. The Royals wasted a lot of money. I would rather spend smart money than just spend money in general. People will rip on the Pirates but then praise the Royals on their spending. It just doesn't make sense.
KC had won the WS the previous year and was in the WS 2 years in a row. In the process, they had increased payroll from a Pirate-esque minuscule to middle of the pack. Their spending last year was consistent with an org that was serious about maintaining their status as a serious WS contender. You can now look back in hindsight and say they got less per $ than the Pirates. But at least KC tried. The Pirates-who haven't won a WS since 1979-didn't.
They won the World Series with a $112 million payroll.
I know why their payroll is higher now, they won and paid their players who helped them win it all. I don't blame them. The Phillies did the same thing. I think the Royals might be like the Phillies the next few years.
You can't think they did a good job with their payroll last year? They increased it big time and were a .500 team. It is more proof that spending money just to spend doesn't mean winning. People, me included, wanted the Pirates to build on their 98 win season. The Royals tried to build on their 2015 season and failed too. But its ok, they spent money!
If the Pirates win it all, I could care less what they spend for many years later if they lose. But the Royals passing $130 million doesn't mean they are making smart decisions.
There are several factors at play. It's not as if they start from scratch each year. KC went to 2 straight WS and won the 2nd one with a roster that included players on multi-year deals, just like every other MLB team. As with most teams, salaries increase from year to year and KC had great success in 2014 and 2015 with players who would be receiving further increases in 2016. So their payroll in 2016 was part of what got them to 2 straight WS and won one in 2015. Furthermore, due to MLB inflation, altho KC increased its payroll in 2016 to 146 mil, their payroll in their WS winning season of 2015 had been 132 mil (not the 112 mil you indicated) but it dropped them from 13th in 2013 to 15th in 2016. So it's not reasonable to accept their salary structure for the years they got to the WS but then scoff at them for not getting in the WS the next year while most of those same players were still under contract. By that reasoning, the Pirates are a raving success because they always keep a low payroll by avoiding a roster that could win a WS if it required increased salaries down the road, even if it resulted in a lower standing in MLB salaries due to inflation.
Yeah, the Royals could have said we won the series, lets not increase payroll next year. Instead, they tried to repeat and tried it without going overboard on payroll. If I was a Royals fan I would applaud the effort.
KC had won the WS the previous year and was in the WS 2 years in a row. In the process, they had increased payroll from a Pirate-esque minuscule to middle of the pack. Their spending last year was consistent with an org that was serious about maintaining their status as a serious WS contender. You can now look back in hindsight and say they got less per $ than the Pirates. But at least KC tried. The Pirates-who haven't won a WS since 1979-didn't.
They won the World Series with a $112 million payroll.
I know why their payroll is higher now, they won and paid their players who helped them win it all. I don't blame them. The Phillies did the same thing. I think the Royals might be like the Phillies the next few years.
You can't think they did a good job with their payroll last year? They increased it big time and were a .500 team. It is more proof that spending money just to spend doesn't mean winning. People, me included, wanted the Pirates to build on their 98 win season. The Royals tried to build on their 2015 season and failed too. But its ok, they spent money!
If the Pirates win it all, I could care less what they spend for many years later if they lose. But the Royals passing $130 million doesn't mean they are making smart decisions.
There are several factors at play. It's not as if they start from scratch each year. KC went to 2 straight WS and won the 2nd one with a roster that included players on multi-year deals, just like every other MLB team. As with most teams, salaries increase from year to year and KC had great success in 2014 and 2015 with players who would be receiving further increases in 2016. So their payroll in 2016 was part of what got them to 2 straight WS and won one in 2015. Furthermore, due to MLB inflation, altho KC increased its payroll in 2016 to 146 mil, their payroll in their WS winning season of 2015 had been 132 mil (not the 112 mil you indicated) but it dropped them from 13th in 2013 to 15th in 2016. So it's not reasonable to accept their salary structure for the years they got to the WS but then scoff at them for not getting in the WS the next year while most of those same players were still under contract. By that reasoning, the Pirates are a raving success because they always keep a low payroll by avoiding a roster that could win a WS if it required increased salaries down the road, even if it resulted in a lower standing in MLB salaries due to inflation.
Yeah, the Royals could have said we won the series, lets not increase payroll next year. Instead, they tried to repeat and tried it without going overboard on payroll. If I was a Royals fan I would applaud the effort.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
1A3C3D2A3C2C5F0 wrote: I am not joking. The Royals wasted a lot of money. I would rather spend smart money than just spend money in general. People will rip on the Pirates but then praise the Royals on their spending. It just doesn't make sense.
KC had won the WS the previous year and was in the WS 2 years in a row. In the process, they had increased payroll from a Pirate-esque minuscule to middle of the pack. Their spending last year was consistent with an org that was serious about maintaining their status as a serious WS contender. You can now look back in hindsight and say they got less per $ than the Pirates. But at least KC tried. The Pirates-who haven't won a WS since 1979-didn't.
They won the World Series with a $112 million payroll.
I know why their payroll is higher now, they won and paid their players who helped them win it all. I don't blame them. The Phillies did the same thing. I think the Royals might be like the Phillies the next few years.
You can't think they did a good job with their payroll last year? They increased it big time and were a .500 team. It is more proof that spending money just to spend doesn't mean winning. People, me included, wanted the Pirates to build on their 98 win season. The Royals tried to build on their 2015 season and failed too. But its ok, they spent money!
If the Pirates win it all, I could care less what they spend for many years later if they lose. But the Royals passing $130 million doesn't mean they are making smart decisions.
There are several factors at play. It's not as if they start from scratch each year. KC went to 2 straight WS and won the 2nd one with a roster that included players on multi-year deals, just like every other MLB team. As with most teams, salaries increase from year to year and KC had great success in 2014 and 2015 with players who would be receiving further increases in 2016. So their payroll in 2016 was part of what got them to 2 straight WS and won one in 2015. Furthermore, due to MLB inflation, altho KC increased its payroll in 2016 to 146 mil, their payroll in their WS winning season of 2015 had been 132 mil (not the 112 mil you indicated) but it dropped them from 13th in 2013 to 15th in 2016. So it's not reasonable to accept their salary structure for the years they got to the WS but then scoff at them for not getting in the WS the next year while most of those same players were still under contract. By that reasoning, the Pirates are a raving success because they always keep a low payroll by avoiding a roster that could win a WS if it required increased salaries down the road, even if it resulted in a lower standing in MLB salaries due to inflation.
Yeah, the Royals could have said we won the series, lets not increase payroll next year. Instead, they tried to repeat and tried it without going overboard on payroll. If I was a Royals fan I would applaud the effort.
Yet what a great example of what's wrong with baseball. A team like the Cubs will preserve for years while an equally apt organization in KC while hoping to hold on for a year or two are all but destined to fade to mediocrity.
KC had won the WS the previous year and was in the WS 2 years in a row. In the process, they had increased payroll from a Pirate-esque minuscule to middle of the pack. Their spending last year was consistent with an org that was serious about maintaining their status as a serious WS contender. You can now look back in hindsight and say they got less per $ than the Pirates. But at least KC tried. The Pirates-who haven't won a WS since 1979-didn't.
They won the World Series with a $112 million payroll.
I know why their payroll is higher now, they won and paid their players who helped them win it all. I don't blame them. The Phillies did the same thing. I think the Royals might be like the Phillies the next few years.
You can't think they did a good job with their payroll last year? They increased it big time and were a .500 team. It is more proof that spending money just to spend doesn't mean winning. People, me included, wanted the Pirates to build on their 98 win season. The Royals tried to build on their 2015 season and failed too. But its ok, they spent money!
If the Pirates win it all, I could care less what they spend for many years later if they lose. But the Royals passing $130 million doesn't mean they are making smart decisions.
There are several factors at play. It's not as if they start from scratch each year. KC went to 2 straight WS and won the 2nd one with a roster that included players on multi-year deals, just like every other MLB team. As with most teams, salaries increase from year to year and KC had great success in 2014 and 2015 with players who would be receiving further increases in 2016. So their payroll in 2016 was part of what got them to 2 straight WS and won one in 2015. Furthermore, due to MLB inflation, altho KC increased its payroll in 2016 to 146 mil, their payroll in their WS winning season of 2015 had been 132 mil (not the 112 mil you indicated) but it dropped them from 13th in 2013 to 15th in 2016. So it's not reasonable to accept their salary structure for the years they got to the WS but then scoff at them for not getting in the WS the next year while most of those same players were still under contract. By that reasoning, the Pirates are a raving success because they always keep a low payroll by avoiding a roster that could win a WS if it required increased salaries down the road, even if it resulted in a lower standing in MLB salaries due to inflation.
Yeah, the Royals could have said we won the series, lets not increase payroll next year. Instead, they tried to repeat and tried it without going overboard on payroll. If I was a Royals fan I would applaud the effort.
Yet what a great example of what's wrong with baseball. A team like the Cubs will preserve for years while an equally apt organization in KC while hoping to hold on for a year or two are all but destined to fade to mediocrity.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
I understand all of that. That is also why the Pirates don't compare. The Royals have some overpaid players. I get it. They won and some of their contracts were in the low phase as most contracts increase every year. The Phillies did the same thing and now owed Ryan Howard $25 million a year. The Royals might be in the same situation with Gordon, Perez, and Vargas.
I would love if the Pirates gave McCutchen $25 million a year if they win it all. That doesn't mean it wouldn't become a bad contract down the road. And the Pirates payroll would probably increase every year as well.
I don't know why Royals' payroll makes a Pirates message board with a rip into the Pirates when they are in two different positions.
http://www.royalsreview.com/2015/2/19/8 ... 12-million
I would love if the Pirates gave McCutchen $25 million a year if they win it all. That doesn't mean it wouldn't become a bad contract down the road. And the Pirates payroll would probably increase every year as well.
I don't know why Royals' payroll makes a Pirates message board with a rip into the Pirates when they are in two different positions.
http://www.royalsreview.com/2015/2/19/8 ... 12-million
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rucker59@gmail.com
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
545F575B5E5F440107704951585F5F1E535F300 wrote: I understand all of that. That is also why the Pirates don't compare. The Royals have some overpaid players. I get it. They won and some of their contracts were in the low phase as most contracts increase every year. The Phillies did the same thing and now owed Ryan Howard $25 million a year. The Royals might be in the same situation with Gordon, Perez, and Vargas.
I would love if the Pirates gave McCutchen $25 million a year if they win it all. That doesn't mean it wouldn't become a bad contract down the road. And the Pirates payroll would probably increase every year as well.
I don't know why Royals' payroll makes a Pirates message board with a rip into the Pirates when they are in two different positions.
http://www.royalsreview.com/2015/2/19/8 ... 12-million
They're in two different positions because the Pirates won't compete with the KC Royals for crying out loud.
The Royals payroll makes it to this board because it demonstrates that something is not adding up somewhere: I get we can't compare budgets with the largest markets but you've not given any reason why the Pirates can't compete with the Royals. It's especially relevant given the KC owner was always considered a cheapskate. There is no reason to believe he's suddenly destroying the Royals financial base.
Finally, even if everything you're saying is true, that has zero to do with Hammel. A two year $16M contract would hardly place the Pirates in a position like the Phillies as you suggest. That's a cop-out.
We need experience in the rotation. Surely you will agree this is a pitcher that could help the Pirates at a price they can afford.
I would love if the Pirates gave McCutchen $25 million a year if they win it all. That doesn't mean it wouldn't become a bad contract down the road. And the Pirates payroll would probably increase every year as well.
I don't know why Royals' payroll makes a Pirates message board with a rip into the Pirates when they are in two different positions.
http://www.royalsreview.com/2015/2/19/8 ... 12-million
They're in two different positions because the Pirates won't compete with the KC Royals for crying out loud.
The Royals payroll makes it to this board because it demonstrates that something is not adding up somewhere: I get we can't compare budgets with the largest markets but you've not given any reason why the Pirates can't compete with the Royals. It's especially relevant given the KC owner was always considered a cheapskate. There is no reason to believe he's suddenly destroying the Royals financial base.
Finally, even if everything you're saying is true, that has zero to do with Hammel. A two year $16M contract would hardly place the Pirates in a position like the Phillies as you suggest. That's a cop-out.
We need experience in the rotation. Surely you will agree this is a pitcher that could help the Pirates at a price they can afford.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
The Pirates are the same ballpark of $112 million. The payroll when the Royals won it all.
I would take Hammel for one year deal. I don't know about a two year deal with the minor leaguers on the rise (Glasnow). Maybe the Pirates offered him $10 million? Do we know?
I don't want Vargas for that price. Do you?
I am not worried about the veteran experience. It is nice when the pitcher is good. Burnett was a great leader, well respected, and performed. I don't want some one just because they have experience. Cole and Nova have enough experience for me. I want them to perform.
The Royals and Pirates were built the same way. The Pirates have been close. I know people don't care, but it is pretty hard to make the playoffs three years in a row. The Royals didn't do it. Of course, I would take their success over the Pirates, but once you make the playoffs any team can win it all.
I would take Hammel for one year deal. I don't know about a two year deal with the minor leaguers on the rise (Glasnow). Maybe the Pirates offered him $10 million? Do we know?
I don't want Vargas for that price. Do you?
I am not worried about the veteran experience. It is nice when the pitcher is good. Burnett was a great leader, well respected, and performed. I don't want some one just because they have experience. Cole and Nova have enough experience for me. I want them to perform.
The Royals and Pirates were built the same way. The Pirates have been close. I know people don't care, but it is pretty hard to make the playoffs three years in a row. The Royals didn't do it. Of course, I would take their success over the Pirates, but once you make the playoffs any team can win it all.
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
As the old folk song, 'Turn Turn Turn', based on the book of Ecclesiastes says: "To everything there is a season".
In the case of the Pirates there was a time to spend after a 98 win season. A reasonable increase in payroll to help fortify an already very good team and boost its chances for a WS title. They famously failed to make that commitment. Of course spending money in baseball guarantees nothing but there are smart ways to increase spending to make a team better. For the Pirates they've turned turned turned that phrase from Ecclesiastes into "To every season there is a reason not to spend".
In the case of the Pirates there was a time to spend after a 98 win season. A reasonable increase in payroll to help fortify an already very good team and boost its chances for a WS title. They famously failed to make that commitment. Of course spending money in baseball guarantees nothing but there are smart ways to increase spending to make a team better. For the Pirates they've turned turned turned that phrase from Ecclesiastes into "To every season there is a reason not to spend".
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Bobster21
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
414A424E4B4A511412655C444D4A4A0B464A250 wrote: The Pirates are the same ballpark of $112 million. The payroll when the Royals won it all.
I would take Hammel for one year deal. I don't know about a two year deal with the minor leaguers on the rise (Glasnow). Maybe the Pirates offered him $10 million? Do we know?
I don't want Vargas for that price. Do you?
I am not worried about the veteran experience. It is nice when the pitcher is good. Burnett was a great leader, well respected, and performed. I don't want some one just because they have experience. Cole and Nova have enough experience for me. I want them to perform.
The Royals and Pirates were built the same way. The Pirates have been close. I know people don't care, but it is pretty hard to make the playoffs three years in a row. The Royals didn't do it. Of course, I would take their success over the Pirates, but once you make the playoffs any team can win it all.
It looks like you are referring to the payroll just for the 25-man roster. This site shows total payroll which had KC at 132 mil for their WS championship year of 2015. The Pirates don't appear to be in that ballpark and even that was 2 years ago.
http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2015/
I would take Hammel for one year deal. I don't know about a two year deal with the minor leaguers on the rise (Glasnow). Maybe the Pirates offered him $10 million? Do we know?
I don't want Vargas for that price. Do you?
I am not worried about the veteran experience. It is nice when the pitcher is good. Burnett was a great leader, well respected, and performed. I don't want some one just because they have experience. Cole and Nova have enough experience for me. I want them to perform.
The Royals and Pirates were built the same way. The Pirates have been close. I know people don't care, but it is pretty hard to make the playoffs three years in a row. The Royals didn't do it. Of course, I would take their success over the Pirates, but once you make the playoffs any team can win it all.
It looks like you are referring to the payroll just for the 25-man roster. This site shows total payroll which had KC at 132 mil for their WS championship year of 2015. The Pirates don't appear to be in that ballpark and even that was 2 years ago.
http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2015/
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
1F3B2F27224E0 wrote: As the old folk song, 'Turn Turn Turn', based on the book of Ecclesiastes says: "To everything there is a season".
In the case of the Pirates there was a time to spend after a 98 win season. A reasonable increase in payroll to help fortify an already very good team and boost its chances for a WS title. They famously failed to make that commitment. Of course spending money in baseball guarantees nothing but there are smart ways to increase spending to make a team better. For the Pirates they've turned turned turned that phrase from Ecclesiastes into "To every season there is a reason not to spend".
I agree for the most part. They got rid of some key pieces and thought they had better players in house and on the market. They lost a top pitcher to retirement too. Some bad decisions were made after that 98 win season.
Like you said, it is not a guarantee. The Royals did win it all. That is great for them because they look like they are in trouble going forward. Payroll will keep going up with the extensions they signed and they might not be as good. Their attendance can easily fall to the low 20K too. Time will tell.
In the case of the Pirates there was a time to spend after a 98 win season. A reasonable increase in payroll to help fortify an already very good team and boost its chances for a WS title. They famously failed to make that commitment. Of course spending money in baseball guarantees nothing but there are smart ways to increase spending to make a team better. For the Pirates they've turned turned turned that phrase from Ecclesiastes into "To every season there is a reason not to spend".
I agree for the most part. They got rid of some key pieces and thought they had better players in house and on the market. They lost a top pitcher to retirement too. Some bad decisions were made after that 98 win season.
Like you said, it is not a guarantee. The Royals did win it all. That is great for them because they look like they are in trouble going forward. Payroll will keep going up with the extensions they signed and they might not be as good. Their attendance can easily fall to the low 20K too. Time will tell.
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OrlandoMerced
Royals' payroll surpassed $130M....
123F32232435226261500 wrote: I am not joking. The Royals wasted a lot of money. I would rather spend smart money than just spend money in general. People will rip on the Pirates but then praise the Royals on their spending. It just doesn't make sense.
KC had won the WS the previous year and was in the WS 2 years in a row. In the process, they had increased payroll from a Pirate-esque minuscule to middle of the pack. Their spending last year was consistent with an org that was serious about maintaining their status as a serious WS contender. You can now look back in hindsight and say they got less per $ than the Pirates. But at least KC tried. The Pirates-who haven't won a WS since 1979-didn't.
The Royals won a WS, in the process they pretty much gutted their farm system. I think that is definitely a price any team would pay for the title. If you want to point to something the Royals did that the Pirates should do, it's leverage the farm system. The Pirates should do that at the deadline the next time they are legit competitive. I'm not going to cry over spilled milk for them not doing it in 2015, but I do think that they should dig in this year if they're in it.
It's pretty comical to point at the Royals current payroll as some indicator of smart management. They are on a straight path to irrelevance.
KC had won the WS the previous year and was in the WS 2 years in a row. In the process, they had increased payroll from a Pirate-esque minuscule to middle of the pack. Their spending last year was consistent with an org that was serious about maintaining their status as a serious WS contender. You can now look back in hindsight and say they got less per $ than the Pirates. But at least KC tried. The Pirates-who haven't won a WS since 1979-didn't.
The Royals won a WS, in the process they pretty much gutted their farm system. I think that is definitely a price any team would pay for the title. If you want to point to something the Royals did that the Pirates should do, it's leverage the farm system. The Pirates should do that at the deadline the next time they are legit competitive. I'm not going to cry over spilled milk for them not doing it in 2015, but I do think that they should dig in this year if they're in it.
It's pretty comical to point at the Royals current payroll as some indicator of smart management. They are on a straight path to irrelevance.