OnlyBucs

597479686F7E69292A1B0 wrote: It has been a crusade by pretty much every sports person in Pittsburgh to spend nearly the entirety of their shows this week blasting the Pirates.  You'd think this was 2002 and we had been hopeless for a decade with a terrible roster.  I don't get it.
Or it could be that after this FO turned the franchise around and became competitive (and said spending would increase when fan attendance increased and when the time was right), they still maintained one of the lowest payrolls in MLB by having very unproductive off seasons and letting the Pirates fall into non-contention last year and did little to change that this year. The Nutting regime seemed to be on the right track and then pulled back on the reins when they realized a serious contender requires more than minimal payroll. People used to be upset because the Bucs were a dismal franchise. Now they are upset because the FO seems to have taken a half-way approach after saying the goal was to win a championship.


You're preaching to the choir here.  I get that.  You get that.  Most of Pittsburgh gets it.  I'm fine continuing to voice that perspective and "keeping a foot on that gas pedal."  The reality is, that's just how it is going to be with this owner.  No sense getting incessantly bent out of shape about it.  It be clear, I'm not saying that's you Bobster.  It's just a general vibe I feel.  More importantly, this doomsday mentality isn't "simply" where this team is right now.  That is one part of the story.  There is a whole lot to be excited about with this team and this season.  As opposed to a decade ago, there is hope now to make the playoffs.  If we were in any other division in baseball, we'd be a favorite or a strong contender for the division.



Your perspective isn't wrong.  There's just a lot more going on that than.  It just feels as if nearly all of the conversation about the Pirates (radio, conversation around town, this board) at this point is negativity.  Personally, I just don't get it.
Agreed, Mike. Right or wrong, the focus is largely on what this FO has not done. Maybe by season's end we are all raving about this young rotation as the Bucs enter the playoffs. Personally, I really like Taillon (who doesn't?) and also Kuhl. And maybe Glasnow finally emerges. But these two lackluster off-seasons following a 98-win season leading to a 20 win-dip while maintaining a bottom-feeder payroll have created doubt where there used to be excitement and only a good season will change that. IMHO, this FO has to prove something now to the fans before that doubt can be erased. 


I think some people are expecting the Pirates to do whatever it takes and spend whatever it takes to remain a contending team and that's not the way this FO operates. They have a very specific way to doing things and are not going to deviate from it. One thing you can guarantee is that they will not panic after a down year and overspend. Whether their plain is enough to keep us a contender year to year is open to debate, but they are intentional, not reactionary.

416C61707766713132030 wrote: It has been a crusade by pretty much every sports person in Pittsburgh to spend nearly the entirety of their shows this week blasting the Pirates.  You'd think this was 2002 and we had been hopeless for a decade with a terrible roster.  I don't get it.
Or it could be that after this FO turned the franchise around and became competitive (and said spending would increase when fan attendance increased and when the time was right), they still maintained one of the lowest payrolls in MLB by having very unproductive off seasons and letting the Pirates fall into non-contention last year and did little to change that this year. The Nutting regime seemed to be on the right track and then pulled back on the reins when they realized a serious contender requires more than minimal payroll. People used to be upset because the Bucs were a dismal franchise. Now they are upset because the FO seems to have taken a half-way approach after saying the goal was to win a championship.


You're preaching to the choir here.  I get that.  You get that.  Most of Pittsburgh gets it.  I'm fine continuing to voice that perspective and "keeping a foot on that gas pedal."  The reality is, that's just how it is going to be with this owner.  No sense getting incessantly bent out of shape about it.  It be clear, I'm not saying that's you Bobster.  It's just a general vibe I feel.  More importantly, this doomsday mentality isn't "simply" where this team is right now.  That is one part of the story.  There is a whole lot to be excited about with this team and this season.  As opposed to a decade ago, there is hope now to make the playoffs.  If we were in any other division in baseball, we'd be a favorite or a strong contender for the division.



Your perspective isn't wrong.  There's just a lot more going on that than.  It just feels as if nearly all of the conversation about the Pirates (radio, conversation around town, this board) at this point is negativity.  Personally, I just don't get it.
Agreed, Mike. Right or wrong, the focus is largely on what this FO has not done. Maybe by season's end we are all raving about this young rotation as the Bucs enter the playoffs. Personally, I really like Taillon (who doesn't?) and also Kuhl. And maybe Glasnow finally emerges. But these two lackluster off-seasons following a 98-win season leading to a 20 win-dip while maintaining a bottom-feeder payroll have created doubt where there used to be excitement and only a good season will change that. IMHO, this FO has to prove something now to the fans before that doubt can be erased. 


It's certainly worthy of discussion, but but why write that as the center of focus for the opening week of the season?

Personally, what bothers me isn't so much the questioning of the FO.  But rather, it's the almost knee-jerk reaction of cynicism among Pirates fans.  Every so often, I'll read an article on either the Trib or PPG.  The comments (there are few) seem to just be knee-jerk reactions.  One of my favorites was about James McDonald.  "They'll just trade him in a few weeks anyway.  These owners are idiots who only care about lining their own pockets."



Such a statement may sound good, or make the person feel good.  But it ignores points, like say the fact that McDonald was ACQUIRED in a trade.  I think there is plenty to criticize the FO for, but in my book, the constant cynicism from the media and many fans just make their complaints ring hollow.  Some of these people can't acknowledge ANYTHING good from this FO.  That leads me to believe they simply have an axe to grind, or aren't paying attention.

6F67645345604748260 wrote: Personally, what bothers me isn't so much the questioning of the FO.  But rather, it's the almost knee-jerk reaction of cynicism among Pirates fans.  Every so often, I'll read an article on either the Trib or PPG.  The comments (there are few) seem to just be knee-jerk reactions.  One of my favorites was about James McDonald.  "They'll just trade him in a few weeks anyway.  These owners are idiots who only care about lining their own pockets."



Such a statement may sound good, or make the person feel good.  But it ignores points, like say the fact that McDonald was ACQUIRED in a trade.  I think there is plenty to criticize the FO for, but in my book, the constant cynicism from the media and many fans just make their complaints ring hollow.  Some of these people can't acknowledge ANYTHING good from this FO.  That leads me to believe they simply have an axe to grind, or aren't paying attention.




My favorite was a line from when we were in the middle/end of our streak:  "the Pirates always trade away all their GREAT players!"



Heh, as if the majors were just swarming with great players that were on a 90-game losing team:  as if a team gets to losing 20 season in a row by having great players. 



It was an easy flag to me that the person had no idea what they were talking about, and baseball discussion with them would be worthless:  best to just nod and move on to something else. 



And yeah I agree: even though there IS an element worth discussing there, 99% of those (team is CHEAP) response is just super shallow and empty talk.  It's the "Workin' Hard or Hardly Workin'?" of talking about the Pirates. 

464344424A4059444D5E58552C0 wrote: It has been a crusade by pretty much every sports person in Pittsburgh to spend nearly the entirety of their shows this week blasting the Pirates.  You'd think this was 2002 and we had been hopeless for a decade with a terrible roster.  I don't get it.
Or it could be that after this FO turned the franchise around and became competitive (and said spending would increase when fan attendance increased and when the time was right), they still maintained one of the lowest payrolls in MLB by having very unproductive off seasons and letting the Pirates fall into non-contention last year and did little to change that this year. The Nutting regime seemed to be on the right track and then pulled back on the reins when they realized a serious contender requires more than minimal payroll. People used to be upset because the Bucs were a dismal franchise. Now they are upset because the FO seems to have taken a half-way approach after saying the goal was to win a championship.


I think some people are expecting the Pirates to do whatever it takes and spend whatever it takes to remain a contending team and that's not the way this FO operates.  They have a very specific way to doing things and are not going to deviate from it.  One thing you can guarantee is that they will not panic after a down year and overspend.  Whether their plain is enough to keep us a contender year to year is open to debate, but they are intentional, not reactionary.




I don't think so at all.  There's gotta be almost nobody who expects them to do whatever it takes and spend whatever it takes to succeed.   



There's a big gap between doing whatever it takes/ spending whatever it takes and what currently they do. They aren't even close to the former. 

464F475658220 wrote: It has been a crusade by pretty much every sports person in Pittsburgh to spend nearly the entirety of their shows this week blasting the Pirates.  You'd think this was 2002 and we had been hopeless for a decade with a terrible roster.  I don't get it.
Or it could be that after this FO turned the franchise around and became competitive (and said spending would increase when fan attendance increased and when the time was right), they still maintained one of the lowest payrolls in MLB by having very unproductive off seasons and letting the Pirates fall into non-contention last year and did little to change that this year. The Nutting regime seemed to be on the right track and then pulled back on the reins when they realized a serious contender requires more than minimal payroll. People used to be upset because the Bucs were a dismal franchise. Now they are upset because the FO seems to have taken a half-way approach after saying the goal was to win a championship.


I think some people are expecting the Pirates to do whatever it takes and spend whatever it takes to remain a contending team and that's not the way this FO operates.  They have a very specific way to doing things and are not going to deviate from it.  One thing you can guarantee is that they will not panic after a down year and overspend.  Whether their plain is enough to keep us a contender year to year is open to debate, but they are intentional, not reactionary.




I don't think so at all.  There's gotta be almost nobody who expects them to do whatever it takes and spend whatever it takes to succeed.   



There's a big gap between doing whatever it takes/ spending whatever it takes and what currently they do.   They aren't even close to the former. 


I think wvbucco is correct but that doesn't mean fans expect the Pirates to become big spenders. For example, they could have resigned Happ after the 98-win season and still maintained one of MLB's lowest payrolls. But the FO would not do so. Fans expect the FO to at least do that much to be competitive.

I don't think people realize the current contracts and how young teams are built. They signed almost everyone to long term deals. Every position player is under a long term deal except Mercer or can't go anywhere (Bell). The same with the rotation. Kuhl, Glasnow, Taillon can't go anywhere. Nova is signed, Cole is arbitration and they paid him.



People want them to spend money just to spend money. Yet, the team is in place to win.

202B232F2A2B307573043D252C2B2B6A272B440 wrote: I don't think people realize the current contracts and how young teams are built.  They signed almost everyone to long term deals.  Every position player is under a long term deal except Mercer or can't go anywhere (Bell). The same with the rotation.  Kuhl, Glasnow, Taillon can't go anywhere.  Nova is signed, Cole is arbitration and they paid him. 



People want them to spend money just to spend money.  Yet, the team is in place to win.    


Yes kudos to the org for paying Cole arbitration and not non-tendering him. +1

I would hope that Hurdle is unhappy with the investment behind the scenes. He can do the math on team income and expenses, too. This isn't the early McClatchy years when ordering out for lunch turned into an issue for team finances. Back then, a risky contract could have sunk the franchise.



Ironically, his position is probably not that much unlike that of Jim Leyland, who was released from his contract when McClatchy didn't live up to his end of the deal.



Everyone in athletic pursuit wants to win. There is a time to build, and a time to go for it. When it comes time to go for it, and the will is not there? If it's a player, you get rid of that player. If it's an owner philosophy, you piss and moan.



In defense of Nutting (did I just write that?), a lot of the attitudes of the fan base are pre-Nutting. 25 years ago, Bonds, Bonilla, Drabek, and a whole bunch of others, headed out the door because of an inability to financially compete. Then it was Giles and company. Then it was Bay and Sanchez. No matter the logic of a particular purge, the lesson was reinforced.



"We Had 'Em All The Way," degenerated into "Here We Go Again."



I want a manager who wants to push and get as much as he can, on the field and off. I can buy that the Pirates under-performed in 2016, but they are still in a window where a championship can be had.



Managers, players and fans don't want to count beans with the team accountant. They want to cheer a champion.