OnlyBucs

202B232F2A2B307573043D252C2B2B6A272B440 wrote: I also note the phrase in the Forbes article, "on the secondary market."  So either way that's not the price that the team is getting.  I wonder what the heck kind of secondary market they're talking about though. 


I assume Stub Hub, Seat Geek, MLB At Bat and many other apps that are out there are "secondary market". 



Attendance is down.  It was down last year.  They are losing money for sure compared to last year and two years ago.  I just question that $76 average price.  I always thought the Pirates were one of the cheapest tickets in all of baseball.  $76 is not cheap to me. 




I'm sure you're right that that's how they do it, but looking at stubhub right now I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find many 75 dollar seats.

0F3D31312517343D30353A3D5C0 wrote: I also note the phrase in the Forbes article, "on the secondary market."  So either way that's not the price that the team is getting.  I wonder what the heck kind of secondary market they're talking about though. 


I assume Stub Hub, Seat Geek, MLB At Bat and many other apps that are out there are "secondary market". 



Attendance is down.  It was down last year.  They are losing money for sure compared to last year and two years ago.  I just question that $76 average price.  I always thought the Pirates were one of the cheapest tickets in all of baseball.  $76 is not cheap to me. 




I'm sure you're right that that's how they do it, but looking at stubhub right now I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find many 75 dollar seats. 


I agree. I am not sure if that is secondary market or not. Don't forget, they are tickets that are already bought. They are just trying to trade hands and at least get some money back. But I assume the team/venue gets some percentage.

I will stand by my claim that MLB owners really don't care about how many butts are in seats, at the end of the day. The real money in MLB is in TV deals. Money brought in by ticket sales is pocket change by comparison. Heck...MLB allowed a game last year between the O's and Rays to be played LITERALLY in front of zero fans. None. All things being equal, would they prefer full stadiums? Yeah. But, if this were a driving factor, they'd eliminate afternoon games altogether except on Sunday. They'd ensure that every rainout is made up. And they certainly wouldn't play a game in front of no fans.



This is further why is it so asinine to not do everything possible to ensure a good team on the field. More than putting more butts in seats, a competitive Pirates team has the potential of putting tens of thousands of more eyes every night on ROOT Sports. That means more advertising, which means they are willing to sign a bigger contract to broadcast Bucs games. I think in 2013, the Pirates had the highest local TV rating in MLB. If it wasn't the top...it was certainly top five.

I agree IABucFan, but the best advertising is going to the game and getting that experience.



Think of a kid and his first game. They have probably seen hundreds of games on TV, but seeing in person is a whole new feeling.



How many times have you been to a different city and caught a random game just to see the atmosphere or be part of the atmosphere?



A lot of people want to be at the big game, not just watch it at home. If that starts dropping off, so will the home viewership.

The Pirates TV deal with ROOT sports runs through 2019. It might be worth a loss-leading investment to make the team really good if that would mean we could double our TV deal to $40M.

3B3E393F373D243930232528510 wrote: The Pirates TV deal with ROOT sports runs through 2019.  It might be worth a loss-leading investment to make the team really good if that would mean we could double our TV deal to $40M. 


sadly, that's still a relatively paltry deal.

6E5C50504476555C51545B5C3D0 wrote: The Pirates TV deal with ROOT sports runs through 2019.  It might be worth a loss-leading investment to make the team really good if that would mean we could double our TV deal to $40M. 


sadly, that's still a relatively paltry deal. 








yeah, but WVbucco has a good idea which I'm sure the Pirates must have thought about. It does seem a no brainer to make sure ratings are as high as possible to get best deal possible. I have no idea what ratings are this year but imagine they are not as good as last year.

While I will agree that $76 per ticket average is way inflated, does it really matter what it really is.  Bottom line is the PBC's revenues have to be trending down the last two years and only getting worse.  The days of $100 million payroll are long gone for the foreseeable future, unless new revenue streams replace the ticket revenue.  Maybe we will get more $$$ from the TV shares, but so does every other team who renegotiates a new deal.  Free Agent and arbitration costs will continue to go up...and I'm guessing they will rise faster than the PBC's revenue pie. 



The gap keeps getting wider.  Our drafting and development has to get better to compete.  I don't see any other way.

0D3E3E233B3E292E4C0 wrote: While I will agree that $76 per ticket average is way inflated, does it really matter what it really is.  Bottom line is the PBC's revenues have to be trending down the last two years and only getting worse.  The days of $100 million payroll are long gone for the foreseeable future, unless new revenue streams replace the ticket revenue.  Maybe we will get more $$$ from the TV shares, but so does every other team who renegotiates a new deal.  Free Agent and arbitration costs will continue to go up...and I'm guessing they will rise faster than the PBC's revenue pie. 



The gap keeps getting wider.  Our drafting and development has to get better to compete.  I don't see any other way.


I seem to recall that $76 (or a similar # in a previous year) was the average cost to attend a game. Ticket price, concessions, parking. I don't think the Pirates get any parking revenue. Average parking is probably ~$15. So $60 would be the impact to the Pirates, and from personal experience I'd say that's pretty reasonable assuming an average ticket price of around $35.



But your main point, whatever the loss is, it's material - this only complicates the future.



This goes to a point I made yesterday - can't you make even more money with a winning team? Actions since the end of 2015 seem perfectly bazaar, almost like Nutting us trying to destroy value. Like I said, bazaar.