OnlyBucs

If you really want to go 'all-in' on a rebuild then you have to move Cutch, Freese, Harrison, Mercer, Jaso, Cervelli, Cole, Nova, Hudson, Waton, and Nicasio. 



To fill in the positional players you bring up Meadows as soon as he has finished up his rehab, plus Diaz, Bostick, and Newman and you pick a few from other youngish AAAA fillers like Perez, Gosselin and Rogers and hope they don't stink to badly.  For the pitching staff you add Glasnow, Brault, Santana, Neverauskas, and one of Hudson or Angel Sanchez.  I'm not sure I really want us to do that, but that's the all-in full-rebuild mode.



Of course that doesn't consider what you might get in return for all that talent you've traded away, but you certainly would not want to require anyone be MLB-ready.  You just go for the highest upside you can get.

I don't know if I would include Cole as trade bait. I think he would bring back a great return, but they can pay someone and Cole is still pretty young. He is only a year older than Taillon. Front starters seem to be the hardest posiiton to acquire for the long haul.



It will depend on the plan. Will they be thinking three years, five years?

3338303C3938236660172E363F3838793438570 wrote: I don't know if I would include Cole as trade bait.  I think he would bring back a great return, but they can pay someone and Cole is still pretty young.  He is only a year older than Taillon.  Front starters seem to be the hardest posiiton to acquire for the long haul. 



It will depend on the plan.  Will they be thinking three years, five years? 


He isn't a core player.  I don't include him and even consider it. Once he is a FA, no chance he returns here.  Don't say there is a good chance.  It's naive to think so. He isn't a building block.  He should be traded next trade deadline to secure a good return as long as he pitches well enough. He is indeed trade bait.

5C797A7A6F4479717364160 wrote: VA.

I hate to think about rebuilding/retooling etc; but if we did; I have to say I am in 100% agreement with your list and your rationale. I do think that it will cost 100+ million to resign Cutch for 5 years, but I would do it in a heartbeat.

We would have a stacked farm system with the returns for Cole, Marte. Not sure if we want to trade Polanco. I'm still hesitant on that one.


I don't see Cutch getting a $100 million. I think he's looking at ~$75M for 5. Maybe $75 for 4?



I do wonder - given the option of free agency, would Cutch even resign with the Pirates. I wouldn't be surprised if he wants out.



Otherwise, I like how you think since you think like me!

556274645176797E795056170 wrote: I concur, that we have a good nucleus...But I really think we need a thirdbaseman! I really don't think Kang will ever play in the MLB again. I would resign Cutch....While I think Jaso is a goo fella, he just is not giving us much value in return in the hitting department. Another signed free-agent that is a nice complementary piece to a bench, but no threat as a starting player. Bucs front office is one cheap organization plan and simple. Wishing for the best and a competitive team and hopefully for Glasnow to finally turn the corner while a couple young arms mature into serviceable bullpen help. Front office is not going to be active in the free-agent market...   


Yeah, that's the thing - there is indeed some decent talent. But the team hasn't been "tended" the past two years. I have to think this is one of the most puzzling management plan ever.



Just do nothing? Guaranteed way to move backwards.

The fact that our rotation has been so healthy and still extremely mediocre is an urgent red-flag for next season. Usually when rotations are as healthy as this (we have used 6 starting pitchers?) The results are much more favorable.

454C44555B210 wrote: The fact that our rotation has been so healthy and still extremely mediocre is an urgent red-flag for next season.  Usually when rotations are as healthy as this (we have used 6 starting pitchers?) The results are much more favorable.


If it was a veteran rotation, I would agree. Cole's inconsistency has been troublesome. Nova was not heavily sought as a FA but exceeded expectations but seems to have leveled off-maybe to his actual ability level. But this is the first full season for Taillon and Kuhl and Williams. All 3 of them show a lot of promise and we can't expect too much in their first full season just because they are healthy (which Taillon was not). It's reasonable to expect all 3 to build on this years experience while Cole and Nova remain pretty much as they are. I don't see this year as a red flaf for 2018. I'm actually encouraged about the rotation for next year, and they'll be pressed by Brault and Glasnow to hold onto their spots.

200D00111607105053620 wrote: The fact that our rotation has been so healthy and still extremely mediocre is an urgent red-flag for next season.  Usually when rotations are as healthy as this (we have used 6 starting pitchers?) The results are much more favorable.


If it was a veteran rotation, I would agree. Cole's inconsistency has been troublesome. Nova was not heavily sought as a FA but exceeded expectations but seems to have leveled off-maybe to his actual ability level. But this is the first full season for Taillon and Kuhl and Williams. All 3 of them show a lot of promise and we can't expect too much in their first full season just because they are healthy (which Taillon was not). It's reasonable to expect all 3 to build on this years experience while Cole and Nova remain pretty much as they are. I don't see this year as a red flaf for 2018. I'm actually encouraged about the rotation for next year, and they'll be pressed by Brault and Glasnow to hold onto their spots.   


Well, Kuhl started 12 games last year, and has pitched worse in his 21 starts this year.   Sitting on a 4.84ERA and a 1.4+ WHIP as we discuss this.



Williams wasn't even a pitching prospect in the minors.  He's one of those Jeff Karstens come out of nowhere and compete types so far.  I like him.  Hard not to.



In my opinion, those are two pitchers that are about as likely to pitch themselves out of the rotation as they are to improve.   I am happy they're getting all this XP if for no other reason than to be quality depth.



We will need quality depth for when injuries strike.



I think if we go into next year with the same faces as this year, we will end up with the same middling results overall.  Our defense isn't going to drastically improve, as most of the position players are set.



If Kang comes back, there's real potential for the lineup to be good. If he doesn't, it looks alot like this year. A bit better, perhaps.



We have to do something well if we want to win. Pitch, hit or field. We are just OK to blah everywhere.



Need a starter. Need Kang.

The defense will improve big time with Marte and if Kang comes back. You have to think Bell will get better too.

Forget Kang. They'll need to get a 3Bman if they expect anything out of next season.