8/28 vs Cubs. -- very superstitious

mouse · Post by **mouse** » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:31 am

The Osuna problem is that he is a first baseman. He is not an outfielder. He would have to hit forty home runs a year before you would swallow hard and put his out there on any kind of on-going basis. And if he hit forty home runs a year, you might want to use him at first. As it is, he's not going to push out Bell. I can see him being traded over the winter (or kept as a bench bat and replacement for Bell off and on).

Bobster21 · Post by **Bobster21** » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:56 pm

Prior to the game Hurdle was talking about how time is getting short for the Pirates to win the games they need to win. Then to play the 1st place Cubs, he moves Marte--after a 3-hit game the day before--to 6th and puts S-Rod--hitting below the Mendoza line--at leadoff and "rests" Harrison against a LHP--when Harrison is hitting .294 vs LHP. And he starts Stewart over Diaz even tho he feels compelled to PH for Stewart in the 8th? What the heck is he resting players for? The season is nearing its end. What has his obsession with rest done for this team? How is any of this logical? I know it won't make much difference to change managers if Nutting won't even have an average payroll to improve the roster. But it's maddening to watch Hurdle appear to be in another dimension where winning would be nice but no effort will be made to bring that about.

CarolinaBucco · Post by **CarolinaBucco** » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:59 pm

Here's my problem with last night's game ...

J-Hay is hitting something like .290 with an .879 OPS vs. left-handers. But he got the night off (HE NEEDED HIS REST!) and S-Rod started.

S-Rod proceeded to go 0-4 with 2 errors.

Why did J-Hay need the night off? The entire team is getting Thursday off.

johnfluharty · Post by **johnfluharty** » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:12 pm

I liked that we got S-Rod, but he is playing entirely too much IMO.

Ecbucs · Post by **Ecbucs** » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:14 pm

5A58424452370 wrote: The Osuna problem is that he is a first baseman. He is not an outfielder. He would have to hit forty home runs a year before you would swallow hard and put his out there on any kind of on-going basis. And if he hit forty home runs a year, you might want to use him at first. As it is, he's not going to push out Bell. I can see him being traded over the winter (or kept as a bench bat and replacement for Bell off and on).

I would like him or Lupnow to play in right for all the games that Polanco is out. See if either can be above average hitters. For Osuna it would be trade bait especially if he proves to be incompetent at third, for Lupnow to be 4th outfielder or to replace any outfielder that is traded.

SteadyFreddy · Post by **SteadyFreddy** » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:11 pm

7D505D4C4B5A4D0D0E3F0 wrote: Prior to the game Hurdle was talking about how time is getting short for the Pirates to win the games they need to win. Then to play the 1st place Cubs, he moves Marte--after a 3-hit game the day before--to 6th and puts S-Rod--hitting below the Mendoza line--at leadoff and "rests" Harrison against a LHP--when Harrison is hitting .294 vs LHP. And he starts Stewart over Diaz even tho he feels compelled to PH for Stewart in the 8th? What the heck is he resting players for? The season is nearing its end. What has his obsession with rest done for this team? How is any of this logical? I know it won't make much difference to change managers if Nutting won't even have an average payroll to improve the roster. But it's maddening to watch Hurdle appear to be in another dimension where winning would be nice but no effort will be made to bring that about. Yea I was one of the guys who thinks keeping Hurdle around another year or so would be a good move but right now I am not so sure. This resting players game in and game out over trying to win games is starting to get real tiresome and maybe it's time to make a change.

Bobster21 · Post by **Bobster21** » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:27 pm

725544404558675344454558210 wrote: Prior to the game Hurdle was talking about how time is getting short for the Pirates to win the games they need to win. Then to play the 1st place Cubs, he moves Marte--after a 3-hit game the day before--to 6th and puts S-Rod--hitting below the Mendoza line--at leadoff and "rests" Harrison against a LHP--when Harrison is hitting .294 vs LHP. And he starts Stewart over Diaz even tho he feels compelled to PH for Stewart in the 8th? What the heck is he resting players for? The season is nearing its end. What has his obsession with rest done for this team? How is any of this logical? I know it won't make much difference to change managers if Nutting won't even have an average payroll to improve the roster. But it's maddening to watch Hurdle appear to be in another dimension where winning would be nice but no effort will be made to bring that about. Yea I was one of the guys who thinks keeping Hurdle around another year or so would be a good move but right now I am not so sure. This resting players game in and game out over trying to win games is starting to get real tiresome and maybe it's time to make a change.

It's tough to win a series if you don't win the first game. In the last 3 series, he rested Bell in game 1 vs LA, Cutch in game 1 vs Cin and Harrison in game 1 vs Cubs. The Pirates don't have a great lineup to begin with but always doing the other team a favor by sitting out the more productive players is certainly counterproductive. I really don't know what has happened to Hurdle this year but he has consistently run the team in a nonchalant manner as if no particular effort to win games is necessary. Maybe he is seeing himself as a ground breaker using advanced metrics, shifts, a basketball strategy for resting players and feels that these innovations supersede winning games.

PMike · Post by **PMike** » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:20 pm

684548595E4F58181B2A0 wrote: Prior to the game Hurdle was talking about how time is getting short for the Pirates to win the games they need to win. Then to play the 1st place Cubs, he moves Marte--after a 3-hit game the day before--to 6th and puts S-Rod--hitting below the Mendoza line--at leadoff and "rests" Harrison against a LHP--when Harrison is hitting .294 vs LHP. And he starts Stewart over Diaz even tho he feels compelled to PH for Stewart in the 8th? What the heck is he resting players for? The season is nearing its end. What has his obsession with rest done for this team? How is any of this logical? I know it won't make much difference to change managers if Nutting won't even have an average payroll to improve the roster. But it's maddening to watch Hurdle appear to be in another dimension where winning would be nice but no effort will be made to bring that about. Yea I was one of the guys who thinks keeping Hurdle around another year or so would be a good move but right now I am not so sure. This resting players game in and game out over trying to win games is starting to get real tiresome and maybe it's time to make a change.

It's tough to win a series if you don't win the first game. In the last 3 series, he rested Bell in game 1 vs LA, Cutch in game 1 vs Cin and Harrison in game 1 vs Cubs. The Pirates don't have a great lineup to begin with but always doing the other team a favor by sitting out the more productive players is certainly counterproductive. I really don't know what has happened to Hurdle this year but he has consistently run the team in a nonchalant manner as if no particular effort to win games is necessary. Maybe he is seeing himself as a ground breaker using advanced metrics, shifts, a basketball strategy for resting players and feels that these innovations supersede winning games.

It seems like every player gets at least one day off a week with Hurdle. This was surprising...

The Pirates have played 132 games

Josh Bell has played 130. That's second most in all of baseball behind Votto (131)

McCutchen - 128 (tied for 16th)

Harrison & Mercer - 124 (tied for 47th)

Freese - 107 (144th)

If Marte wasn't suspended, I'd think he'd be up by McCutchen.

I was sort of surprised by those numbers. Maybe Hurdle doesn't rest players more than all of the other teams.

Ecbucs · Post by **Ecbucs** » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:20 pm

4E636E7F78697E3E3D0C0 wrote: Prior to the game Hurdle was talking about how time is getting short for the Pirates to win the games they need to win. Then to play the 1st place Cubs, he moves Marte--after a 3-hit game the day before--to 6th and puts S-Rod--hitting below the Mendoza line--at leadoff and "rests" Harrison against a LHP--when Harrison is hitting .294 vs LHP. And he starts Stewart over Diaz even tho he feels compelled to PH for Stewart in the 8th? What the heck is he resting players for? The season is nearing its end. What has his obsession with rest done for this team? How is any of this logical? I know it won't make much difference to change managers if Nutting won't even have an average payroll to improve the roster. But it's maddening to watch Hurdle appear to be in another dimension where winning would be nice but no effort will be made to bring that about. Yea I was one of the guys who thinks keeping Hurdle around another year or so would be a good move but right now I am not so sure. This resting players game in and game out over trying to win games is starting to get real tiresome and maybe it's time to make a change.

It's tough to win a series if you don't win the first game. In the last 3 series, he rested Bell in game 1 vs LA, Cutch in game 1 vs Cin and Harrison in game 1 vs Cubs. The Pirates don't have a great lineup to begin with but always doing the other team a favor by sitting out the more productive players is certainly counterproductive. I really don't know what has happened to Hurdle this year but he has consistently run the team in a nonchalant manner as if no particular effort to win games is necessary. Maybe he is seeing himself as a ground breaker using advanced metrics, shifts, a basketball strategy for resting players and feels that these innovations supersede winning games.

and apparently the analytics dept and others in management are supporting his approach (or at least not telling him to do something different)

Docjon49 · Post by **Docjon49** » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:37 pm

05183C3E30550 wrote: Prior to the game Hurdle was talking about how time is getting short for the Pirates to win the games they need to win. Then to play the 1st place Cubs, he moves Marte--after a 3-hit game the day before--to 6th and puts S-Rod--hitting below the Mendoza line--at leadoff and "rests" Harrison against a LHP--when Harrison is hitting .294 vs LHP. And he starts Stewart over Diaz even tho he feels compelled to PH for Stewart in the 8th? What the heck is he resting players for? The season is nearing its end. What has his obsession with rest done for this team? How is any of this logical? I know it won't make much difference to change managers if Nutting won't even have an average payroll to improve the roster. But it's maddening to watch Hurdle appear to be in another dimension where winning would be nice but no effort will be made to bring that about. Yea I was one of the guys who thinks keeping Hurdle around another year or so would be a good move but right now I am not so sure. This resting players game in and game out over trying to win games is starting to get real tiresome and maybe it's time to make a change.

It's tough to win a series if you don't win the first game. In the last 3 series, he rested Bell in game 1 vs LA, Cutch in game 1 vs Cin and Harrison in game 1 vs Cubs. The Pirates don't have a great lineup to begin with but always doing the other team a favor by sitting out the more productive players is certainly counterproductive. I really don't know what has happened to Hurdle this year but he has consistently run the team in a nonchalant manner as if no particular effort to win games is necessary. Maybe he is seeing himself as a ground breaker using advanced metrics, shifts, a basketball strategy for resting players and feels that these innovations supersede winning games.

It seems like every player gets at least one day off a week with Hurdle. This was surprising...

The Pirates have played 132 games

Josh Bell has played 130. That's second most in all of baseball behind Votto (131)

McCutchen - 128 (tied for 16th)

Harrison & Mercer - 124 (tied for 47th)

Freese - 107 (144th)

If Marte wasn't suspended, I'd think he'd be up by McCutchen.

I was sort of surprised by those numbers. Maybe Hurdle doesn't rest players more than all of the other teams.
Thanks for checking and posting the numbers. I was also surprised, and appreciate the info.