Payroll went down due to a retirement (Burnett) and going with a better, younger player they thought (Harrison), and going with an on-base glove guy at first (Jaso).
Yes, they should have built on 2015, but a big part of that payroll decrease was because they thought they were replacing higher paid players (Walker, Alvarez) with better players (Harrison, Jaso). They lost two pitchers who were decently paid too (Burnett, Morton).
I think it was more of a talent evaluation than actually cutting payroll. They missed on the replacements, which they thought were better. They were wrong. They failed big time in replacing Morton and Burnett. Morton and Alvarez weren't really wanted back by most either.
Huntington needs to improve on his talent evaluation and drafting (which go hand -in- hand). That is where the 2016 team failed the most.
Neal's radio show
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
Neal's radio show
3B30383431302B6E681F263E373030713C305F0 wrote: Payroll went down due to a retirement (Burnett) and going with a better, younger player they thought (Harrison), and going with an on-base glove guy at first (Jaso).
Yes, they should have built on 2015, but a big part of that payroll decrease was because they thought they were replacing higher paid players (Walker, Alvarez) with better players (Harrison, Jaso). They lost two pitchers who were decently paid too (Burnett, Morton).
I think it was more of a talent evaluation than actually cutting payroll. They missed on the replacements, which they thought were better. They were wrong. They failed big time in replacing Morton and Burnett. Morton and Alvarez weren't really wanted back by most either.
Huntington needs to improve on his talent evaluation and drafting (which go hand -in- hand). That is where the 2016 team failed the most.
That "glove guy" at 1B was routinely replaced in the late innings for defense. Jaso is the perfect example of going on the cheap instead of building on a 98-win year. Money they saved on Burnett, Morton and Alvarez plus what they paid Jaso could have gone toward a better 1Bman. Or a better pitcher than Niece or Locke. Or they could have slid Walker over to 1B where he would have been a better bat and glove than Jaso. "The time was right" to increase spending. Not reduce it. And we saw the result.
Yes, they should have built on 2015, but a big part of that payroll decrease was because they thought they were replacing higher paid players (Walker, Alvarez) with better players (Harrison, Jaso). They lost two pitchers who were decently paid too (Burnett, Morton).
I think it was more of a talent evaluation than actually cutting payroll. They missed on the replacements, which they thought were better. They were wrong. They failed big time in replacing Morton and Burnett. Morton and Alvarez weren't really wanted back by most either.
Huntington needs to improve on his talent evaluation and drafting (which go hand -in- hand). That is where the 2016 team failed the most.
That "glove guy" at 1B was routinely replaced in the late innings for defense. Jaso is the perfect example of going on the cheap instead of building on a 98-win year. Money they saved on Burnett, Morton and Alvarez plus what they paid Jaso could have gone toward a better 1Bman. Or a better pitcher than Niece or Locke. Or they could have slid Walker over to 1B where he would have been a better bat and glove than Jaso. "The time was right" to increase spending. Not reduce it. And we saw the result.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Neal's radio show
Many were in favor of Jaso over Alvarez. Especially, after his April in 2016. Many thought Harrison would be better than Walker too. They weren't.
They missed big time on replacing Burnett, who was a huge starter for the Pirates. Niese and Nicasio did not fill that void. Niese was paid more than Burnett.
I understand what you are saying, but I feel the front office thought the team was just as good or was better. I didn't think they were cutting payroll or that was the main goal. The replacements were brought in to be as good or better, not because they were cheaper.
Now, I will come off as defending the front office, but that isn't the case at all. They failed in their evaluation of the players' talent. But since they lost and payroll was lower, people just say it was because of the money. In my opinion, that was not the case.
They missed big time on replacing Burnett, who was a huge starter for the Pirates. Niese and Nicasio did not fill that void. Niese was paid more than Burnett.
I understand what you are saying, but I feel the front office thought the team was just as good or was better. I didn't think they were cutting payroll or that was the main goal. The replacements were brought in to be as good or better, not because they were cheaper.
Now, I will come off as defending the front office, but that isn't the case at all. They failed in their evaluation of the players' talent. But since they lost and payroll was lower, people just say it was because of the money. In my opinion, that was not the case.
Neal's radio show
242F272B2E2F347177003921282F2F6E232F400 wrote: Many were in favor of Jaso over Alvarez. Especially, after his April in 2016. Many thought Harrison would be better than Walker too. They weren't.
They missed big time on replacing Burnett, who was a huge starter for the Pirates. Niese and Nicasio did not fill that void. Niese was paid more than Burnett.
I understand what you are saying, but I feel the front office thought the team was just as good or was better. I didn't think they were cutting payroll or that was the main goal. The replacements were brought in to be as good or better, not because they were cheaper.
Now, I will come off as defending the front office, but that isn't the case at all. They failed in their evaluation of the players' talent. But since they lost and payroll was lower, people just say it was because of the money. In my opinion, that was not the case.
Well if they really thought the team was better with those replacements, Oh never mind we all know that just isn't the case. They were cheaper and deemed good enough. :'(
They missed big time on replacing Burnett, who was a huge starter for the Pirates. Niese and Nicasio did not fill that void. Niese was paid more than Burnett.
I understand what you are saying, but I feel the front office thought the team was just as good or was better. I didn't think they were cutting payroll or that was the main goal. The replacements were brought in to be as good or better, not because they were cheaper.
Now, I will come off as defending the front office, but that isn't the case at all. They failed in their evaluation of the players' talent. But since they lost and payroll was lower, people just say it was because of the money. In my opinion, that was not the case.
Well if they really thought the team was better with those replacements, Oh never mind we all know that just isn't the case. They were cheaper and deemed good enough. :'(
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rucker59@gmail.com
Neal's radio show
313A323E3B3A216462152C343D3A3A7B363A550 wrote: Many were in favor of Jaso over Alvarez. Especially, after his April in 2016. Many thought Harrison would be better than Walker too. They weren't.
They missed big time on replacing Burnett, who was a huge starter for the Pirates. Niese and Nicasio did not fill that void. Niese was paid more than Burnett.
I understand what you are saying, but I feel the front office thought the team was just as good or was better. I didn't think they were cutting payroll or that was the main goal. The replacements were brought in to be as good or better, not because they were cheaper.
Now, I will come off as defending the front office, but that isn't the case at all. They failed in their evaluation of the players' talent. But since they lost and payroll was lower, people just say it was because of the money. In my opinion, that was not the case.
You've got one huge problem with your analysis: Neal Huntington. Your belief flies right into the buzzsaw of Neal's comments right before the start of the 2016 season. In response to questions about the offseason (or lack there of) Neal uttered those infamous words "it's easy to spend someone else's money" and "when Pirate fans support the team like KC fans then we'll be able to have a payroll like KC".
Neal could have said (to your belief) "we really like our team and adding payroll would not help us; I've got a war chest to spend as a result and I'll spend it as needed during the season." He could have, should have, said that even if he didn't mean a word of what he said. But a tiny bit of pressure was applied and he specifically and in not so nice terms blamed the fans for the payroll.
And BTW - I don't remember one person on here thinking Jaso was any kind of adequate replacement for 1st base. I remember a lot of teeth grinding.
They missed big time on replacing Burnett, who was a huge starter for the Pirates. Niese and Nicasio did not fill that void. Niese was paid more than Burnett.
I understand what you are saying, but I feel the front office thought the team was just as good or was better. I didn't think they were cutting payroll or that was the main goal. The replacements were brought in to be as good or better, not because they were cheaper.
Now, I will come off as defending the front office, but that isn't the case at all. They failed in their evaluation of the players' talent. But since they lost and payroll was lower, people just say it was because of the money. In my opinion, that was not the case.
You've got one huge problem with your analysis: Neal Huntington. Your belief flies right into the buzzsaw of Neal's comments right before the start of the 2016 season. In response to questions about the offseason (or lack there of) Neal uttered those infamous words "it's easy to spend someone else's money" and "when Pirate fans support the team like KC fans then we'll be able to have a payroll like KC".
Neal could have said (to your belief) "we really like our team and adding payroll would not help us; I've got a war chest to spend as a result and I'll spend it as needed during the season." He could have, should have, said that even if he didn't mean a word of what he said. But a tiny bit of pressure was applied and he specifically and in not so nice terms blamed the fans for the payroll.
And BTW - I don't remember one person on here thinking Jaso was any kind of adequate replacement for 1st base. I remember a lot of teeth grinding.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Neal's radio show
So, if they paid Harrison $8 million, Jaso $5.75 million, and Nicasio $8 million (or more on all three) you would be ok with that? The payroll would have been the same, right? That's what Walker, Alvarez, and Morton made in 2015.
They still would have lost, but payroll was the same or more. So, that's ok? A lot of people thought Harrison and Jaso were better too. I am sure there are some posts about it (my search still isn't working properly).
They still would have lost, but payroll was the same or more. So, that's ok? A lot of people thought Harrison and Jaso were better too. I am sure there are some posts about it (my search still isn't working properly).
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rucker59@gmail.com
Neal's radio show
4B4A5140561611250 wrote: Many were in favor of Jaso over Alvarez. Especially, after his April in 2016. Many thought Harrison would be better than Walker too. They weren't.
They missed big time on replacing Burnett, who was a huge starter for the Pirates. Niese and Nicasio did not fill that void. Niese was paid more than Burnett.
I understand what you are saying, but I feel the front office thought the team was just as good or was better. I didn't think they were cutting payroll or that was the main goal. The replacements were brought in to be as good or better, not because they were cheaper.
Now, I will come off as defending the front office, but that isn't the case at all. They failed in their evaluation of the players' talent. But since they lost and payroll was lower, people just say it was because of the money. In my opinion, that was not the case.
Well if they really thought the team was better with those replacements, Oh never mind we all know that just isn't the case. They were cheaper and deemed good enough. :'(
Agreed. And if Neal did think his offseason left the 2016 team improved over the 2015 team, then he is clearly not the guy to serve as GM of the Pirates. He should be run out of town.
They missed big time on replacing Burnett, who was a huge starter for the Pirates. Niese and Nicasio did not fill that void. Niese was paid more than Burnett.
I understand what you are saying, but I feel the front office thought the team was just as good or was better. I didn't think they were cutting payroll or that was the main goal. The replacements were brought in to be as good or better, not because they were cheaper.
Now, I will come off as defending the front office, but that isn't the case at all. They failed in their evaluation of the players' talent. But since they lost and payroll was lower, people just say it was because of the money. In my opinion, that was not the case.
Well if they really thought the team was better with those replacements, Oh never mind we all know that just isn't the case. They were cheaper and deemed good enough. :'(
Agreed. And if Neal did think his offseason left the 2016 team improved over the 2015 team, then he is clearly not the guy to serve as GM of the Pirates. He should be run out of town.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Neal's radio show
6D666E6267667D383E497068616666276A66090 wrote: So, if they paid Harrison $8 million, Jaso $5.75 million, and Nicasio $8 million (or more on all three) you would be ok with that? The payroll would have been the same, right? That's what Walker, Alvarez, and Morton made in 2015.
They still would have lost, but payroll was the same or more. So, that's ok? A lot of people thought Harrison and Jaso were better too. I am sure there are some posts about it (my search still isn't working properly).
What? This is the kind of misdirect that I get really frustrated with. I have no idea what you're talking about, but I do know you didn't respond in any way to the "Nuttington" comment and how it appears there was indeed an intentional cap on payroll and not a team that was exactly what Neal wanted.
Your response above is an intentional effort to troll.
They still would have lost, but payroll was the same or more. So, that's ok? A lot of people thought Harrison and Jaso were better too. I am sure there are some posts about it (my search still isn't working properly).
What? This is the kind of misdirect that I get really frustrated with. I have no idea what you're talking about, but I do know you didn't respond in any way to the "Nuttington" comment and how it appears there was indeed an intentional cap on payroll and not a team that was exactly what Neal wanted.
Your response above is an intentional effort to troll.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Neal's radio show
People look at payroll way too much. It has been proven over and over that payroll doesn't mean Championships. The Indians have the best record in the AL. Not the Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Blue Jays, Rangers, Orioles, Angels, Mariners, or the Royals.
The statement thinking the 2016 team was just as good or better is what I am worried about. That is the issue. Evaluating talent has been bad the last two years after the core was built. Some core players were replaced with inferior players and other players brought in did not produce. That is what I am down on Huntington about. He needs to improve in that category instead of just throwing money around.
As soon as the Pirates lose, payroll is brought up and focused on. Would the same focus be on payroll if they paid more for their current players?
I am not a troll. I've been here long enough to know I am not a troll at all. Don't forget VA, you give Nutting much more money than I do in a season. I don't have season tickets anymore.
The statement thinking the 2016 team was just as good or better is what I am worried about. That is the issue. Evaluating talent has been bad the last two years after the core was built. Some core players were replaced with inferior players and other players brought in did not produce. That is what I am down on Huntington about. He needs to improve in that category instead of just throwing money around.
As soon as the Pirates lose, payroll is brought up and focused on. Would the same focus be on payroll if they paid more for their current players?
I am not a troll. I've been here long enough to know I am not a troll at all. Don't forget VA, you give Nutting much more money than I do in a season. I don't have season tickets anymore.
Neal's radio show
6B60686461607B3E384F766E676060216C600F0 wrote: People look at payroll way too much.
I'm not concerned about the payroll.
Our roster sucks, no matter how much they're being paid.
You dancing around the truth (while also claiming that NH isn't good at drafting or talent evaluation) doesn't change the truth.
We will be below .500 in 2018.
You'll still be making excuses.
I'm not concerned about the payroll.
Our roster sucks, no matter how much they're being paid.
You dancing around the truth (while also claiming that NH isn't good at drafting or talent evaluation) doesn't change the truth.
We will be below .500 in 2018.
You'll still be making excuses.