OnlyBucs

05223337322F10243332322F560 wrote: I hate to disagree, but I’ve got to disagree. All three are still here because they are willing to work for someone like Nutting and keep their mouths shut. 



Most guy in those positions are way too competitive for Nutting.



Ray S may get the ax, but I doubt that. All valid points VA with Nutting for sure. He does not wanna pay guys as well to not work for him like he would have to do if he fired both Clint or Neal or even just one of them. But like the other post said if this team loses 95 games Nutting is gonna have no choice really if he hopes to sell tickets next season.




I don’t think he cares. He’ll blame fans.

The fans have absolutely nothing to do with the failures of this team both on the field and within the organization. It’s time for Bob Nutting and Coonelly both to be accountable for once in they’re lives and stop blaming the great fans of this team for their ineptitude when it comes to running this franchise.


It's only ineptitude if they were trying to put a championship caliber team on the field and win. But I don't think that's what they're trying to do. I believe Nutting and Coonelly are operating a business with a low overhead and a high profit margin. As long as that happens, they are "successful" in their venture and the performance of the team is irrelevant. Of course they can't admit that because their business requires acceptance by the fans. So they spew a lot of BS to explain the poor product. And that could very well wind up with them blaming the fans. But if they go that route, I hope they are reminded that after a franchise record setting attendance mark in 2015, they subtracted from the talent on the team to save money rather than investing in better players which has led to the joke currently on the field. At one time the BS was that they would spend when the time was right: when attendance increased and the team was performing better. That was easy to say at the time because neither had yet happened. But when both happened, they simply reneged on that promise and never again mentioned spending more. Instead they said they could not spend because they are a small market. And now they say as little as possible. Nutting is rarely seen. Coonelly is rarely heard. NH has to bear the brunt and offer up nonsensical statements when put on the spot. And Hurdle gets annoyed when asked questions after the games. But I don't think they are inept because they know exactly what they are doing. And if I was a greedy businessman intent on owning a team, hoodwinking the fans and profiting from a weak, cheap roster, I would be impressed at just how skillful Nutting is.

In a normal organization, at least one of Hurdle (and by extension his coaches) or NH would be gone after this season and more likely both. Further, in most organizations, Hurdle would not survive the season.



But, Nutting is not running a normal organization. He appears to have no interest in winning, except when it comes to making a profit. About the only time you see him during the season is on Pirate Charities Day when the team relies on fans buying memorabilia to raise money for many great causes; a game I hate because Nutting takes too much credit.



Frankly, I don't think Nutting will absorb the cost of buying out Hurdle and/or NH, so I think that we will see both next year. I have not been able to stomach Hurdle for quite some time, and now NH is bothering my sensibilities about as badly as most on this Board view the endless chattering of Block during the game broadcasts.



PNC is such a great ballpark in which to see a game in person (although I have only ever been to 5 games there) and to watch on TV --- the Pittsburgh skyline never looked so good, but the lousy play on the field is ruining the experience and the joy of being a fan.



Changes are way past being warranted, but in Pittsburgh, the new normal is living through 20 straight years of losing, and if this year is any indication, a new streak that could become even longer.

I assumed these guys were safe because of the contracts, but I agree something will happen if no one buys season tickets. The budget always trump's what happens on the field.

062A22252E093E28384B0 wrote: In a normal organization, at least one of Hurdle (and by extension his coaches) or NH would be gone after this season and more likely both.  Further, in most organizations, Hurdle would not survive the season. 



But, Nutting is not running a normal organization.  He appears to have no interest in winning, except when it comes to making a profit.  About the only time you see him during the season is on Pirate Charities Day when the team relies on fans buying memorabilia to raise money for many great causes; a game I hate because Nutting takes too much credit.



Frankly, I don't think Nutting will absorb the cost of buying out Hurdle and/or NH, so I think that we will see both next year.  I have not been able to stomach Hurdle for quite some time, and now NH is bothering my sensibilities about as badly as most on this Board view the endless chattering of Block during the game broadcasts. 



PNC is such a great ballpark in which to see a game in person (although I have only ever been to 5 games there) and to watch on TV --- the Pittsburgh skyline never looked so good, but the lousy play on the field is ruining the experience and the joy of being a fan.   



Changes are way past being warranted, but in Pittsburgh, the new normal is living through 20 straight years of losing, and if this year is any indication, a new streak that could become even longer.       
It's absolutely malfeasance by the management of this organization. I unlike some believe there is some real talent on this team but the clownish management team has no interest in winning or there just out of touch with modern baseball. This current team with some skillful management could be fighting for a playoff birth, but the stupidity of this manager and his coaches is just beyond anything I have ever seen. Most any team in baseball would have fired Hurdle by now, but not NH he is okay with loses and can't admit he has made another huge mistake in keeping Hurdle around.

What does Coonely do?



Presumably he was the one who extended Nutting and Hurdle (probably with Nutting's advice). And I assume he is the one negotiating the new TV contract, but what else does he do?

1D2E323330380E3328342F283935325C0 wrote: I assumed these guys were safe because of the contracts, but I agree something will happen if no one buys season tickets.  The budget always trump's what happens on the field.
Nutting will buy out Hurdle and pay a new manager. Remember he swallowed very hard when they released Matt Morris in 2008, and he was making about 9 million dollars that season. Someone on the management team is going to pay for this collapse. My guess is that it will start in the dugout.

6965643F363F373A3D22380F0 wrote: I assumed these guys were safe because of the contracts, but I agree something will happen if no one buys season tickets.  The budget always trump's what happens on the field.
Nutting will buy out Hurdle and pay a new manager. Remember he swallowed very hard when they released Matt Morris in 2008, and he was making about 9 million dollars that season. Someone on the management team is going to pay for this collapse. My guess is that it will start in the dugout.


I agree with this. I think Searage is gone for sure. I think it is likely that Hurdle is also gone. Not sure on NH, though he is the one who needs to be gone, IMO.



Yesterday on the fan, Filiponi was saying that there was a rumor that NH passed up trading Vazquez for (at least) May and Ruiz. If that is true, just for those two, NH totally dropped the ball. Failure of nerve.

Apparently Uncle Ray is on the last year of his contract. He will definitely be a sacrificial lamb. The usher in Section 312 may also have to be sacrificed.



Otherwise I think the big three all return. Money is important but Frank, Neal and Clint serve as Nutting's three stooges. Nutting actually needs these three.

6D6A7C747A6D2A265F78727E7673317C70721F0 wrote: Apparently Uncle Ray is on the last year of his contract. He will definitely be a sacrificial lamb. The usher in Section 312 may also have to be sacrificed.



Otherwise I think the big three all return. Money is important but Frank, Neal and Clint serve as Nutting's three stooges.  Nutting actually needs these three.


I agree he needs them and they are willing collaborators. That is why I have posted before that I think NH lacks integrity for sticking around and saying he wants to win championships.

There's still a lot of season left. If the Pirates are still playing .140 baseball by late September, then Governor Nutting will really need to give his season ticket market a reason to stick with things next year.



But if the Pirates are just slumping massively now and manage to go on another tear like in June -- unlikely but possible -- then I think the Big Three will get one more year to get the team back to its standard, mediocre, mushy middle "competitive" state.



If their finish is in between those two outcomes -- what I think is most likely -- then it's a decent (but not guaranteed) chance that injuries and bad luck will be the fall guy during 2019's post-mortem. At least that's what the talking points will be.



Another thing to consider...the last time Nutting cleaned house back in 2007-08, he went on a listening tour through MLB (other owners, scouts, suits, etc.) to get a more accurate gauge of where the franchise was and where it was (and wasn't) heading. I expect him to have at least started that process already.