3E353D3134352E6B6D1A233B3235357439355A0 wrote:
Actually, maybe we need a couple OFers. Polanco has stunned me with his lack of development.
What did you expect from Polanco? Here is some perspective:
24 year old Polanco: 22 HR, 86 RBI, .258 ave, .373 obp, .463 slg, .786 ops
24 year old McCutchen: 23 HR, 89 RBI, .259 ave, .364 obp, .456 slg, .820 ops
I don't mean this to be rude. But are you joking, being serious or arguing just to argue with me? If you think Polanco is playing well then let's just say I disagree. He looks like a cartoon figure running around the OF. I've never compared him to Cutch. I fully expected a ton of power and average.
Maybe he'll turn into an All Star (like I anticipated) tomorrow, but he is turning into one Enigma.
I just asked what you were expecting and pointing out that 24 year old McCutchen put up the same numbers on offense as 24 year old Polanco.
It's like you are calling Polanco a "bust" already (Polanco had 182 less plate appearances entering age 25 season too).
Did you think the same thing about McCutchen's development after his 24 year old season?
Why are we comparing Polanco and McCutchen at all? It makes no sense.
5/4 Pirates vs Reds. Cervelli's return
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
5/4 Pirates vs Reds. Cervelli's return
Polanco was hyped as a good outfielder; someone who could even play CF. But this is his 4th season and I still get nervous every time a ball is hit his way.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
5/4 Pirates vs Reds. Cervelli's return
626378697F3F380C0 wrote:
Actually, maybe we need a couple OFers. Polanco has stunned me with his lack of development.
What did you expect from Polanco? Here is some perspective:
24 year old Polanco: 22 HR, 86 RBI, .258 ave, .373 obp, .463 slg, .786 ops
24 year old McCutchen: 23 HR, 89 RBI, .259 ave, .364 obp, .456 slg, .820 ops
I don't mean this to be rude. But are you joking, being serious or arguing just to argue with me? If you think Polanco is playing well then let's just say I disagree. He looks like a cartoon figure running around the OF. I've never compared him to Cutch. I fully expected a ton of power and average.
Maybe he'll turn into an All Star (like I anticipated) tomorrow, but he is turning into one Enigma.
I just asked what you were expecting and pointing out that 24 year old McCutchen put up the same numbers on offense as 24 year old Polanco.
It's like you are calling Polanco a "bust" already (Polanco had 182 less plate appearances entering age 25 season too).
Did you think the same thing about McCutchen's development after his 24 year old season?
Why are we comparing Polanco and McCutchen at all? It makes no sense.
Sure it does. I am asking VA what he expected and then pointed out what McCutchen, an MVP and five time all star, did at the same age. I think it is a great comparison since their numbers are almost identical.
At age 25, McCutchen hit .300 in April, but nothing else (no HR, 7 RBI). He had a very good (great) May, June, July. Polanco is at that spot now.
Polanco looks awful on defense to me too. I never understood that hype about his defense unless people just think his arm made up for his lacking of squeezing a baseball. I also think McCutchen gets a bad rep on defense. His 2016 was bad, but I think (hope) it was to do with his new unfamiliar positioning.
Actually, maybe we need a couple OFers. Polanco has stunned me with his lack of development.
What did you expect from Polanco? Here is some perspective:
24 year old Polanco: 22 HR, 86 RBI, .258 ave, .373 obp, .463 slg, .786 ops
24 year old McCutchen: 23 HR, 89 RBI, .259 ave, .364 obp, .456 slg, .820 ops
I don't mean this to be rude. But are you joking, being serious or arguing just to argue with me? If you think Polanco is playing well then let's just say I disagree. He looks like a cartoon figure running around the OF. I've never compared him to Cutch. I fully expected a ton of power and average.
Maybe he'll turn into an All Star (like I anticipated) tomorrow, but he is turning into one Enigma.
I just asked what you were expecting and pointing out that 24 year old McCutchen put up the same numbers on offense as 24 year old Polanco.
It's like you are calling Polanco a "bust" already (Polanco had 182 less plate appearances entering age 25 season too).
Did you think the same thing about McCutchen's development after his 24 year old season?
Why are we comparing Polanco and McCutchen at all? It makes no sense.
Sure it does. I am asking VA what he expected and then pointed out what McCutchen, an MVP and five time all star, did at the same age. I think it is a great comparison since their numbers are almost identical.
At age 25, McCutchen hit .300 in April, but nothing else (no HR, 7 RBI). He had a very good (great) May, June, July. Polanco is at that spot now.
Polanco looks awful on defense to me too. I never understood that hype about his defense unless people just think his arm made up for his lacking of squeezing a baseball. I also think McCutchen gets a bad rep on defense. His 2016 was bad, but I think (hope) it was to do with his new unfamiliar positioning.
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rucker59@gmail.com
5/4 Pirates vs Reds. Cervelli's return
464D45494C4D561315625B434A4D4D0C414D220 wrote:
Actually, maybe we need a couple OFers. Polanco has stunned me with his lack of development.
What did you expect from Polanco? Here is some perspective:
24 year old Polanco: 22 HR, 86 RBI, .258 ave, .373 obp, .463 slg, .786 ops
24 year old McCutchen: 23 HR, 89 RBI, .259 ave, .364 obp, .456 slg, .820 ops
I don't mean this to be rude. But are you joking, being serious or arguing just to argue with me? If you think Polanco is playing well then let's just say I disagree. He looks like a cartoon figure running around the OF. I've never compared him to Cutch. I fully expected a ton of power and average.
Maybe he'll turn into an All Star (like I anticipated) tomorrow, but he is turning into one Enigma.
I just asked what you were expecting and pointing out that 24 year old McCutchen put up the same numbers on offense as 24 year old Polanco.
It's like you are calling Polanco a "bust" already (Polanco had 182 less plate appearances entering age 25 season too).
Did you think the same thing about McCutchen's development after his 24 year old season?
Why are we comparing Polanco and McCutchen at all? It makes no sense.
Sure it does. I am asking VA what he expected and then pointed out what McCutchen, an MVP and five time all star, did at the same age. I think it is a great comparison since their numbers are almost identical.
At age 25, McCutchen hit .300 in April, but nothing else (no HR, 7 RBI). He had a very good (great) May, June, July. Polanco is at that spot now.
Polanco looks awful on defense to me too. I never understood that hype about his defense unless people just think his arm made up for his lacking of squeezing a baseball. I also think McCutchen gets a bad rep on defense. His 2016 was bad, but I think (hope) it was to do with his new unfamiliar positioning.
I didn't make a comparison. You did for some reason. My comparison is what I and many others hoped for verses what we've got right now. I expected a + outfielder, a big bat with very good average, a serious threat on the bases. No comparison except to his more or less agreed upon potential. If you think he's living up to potential then I'd say you and only the most diehard homers believe this.
Since I posted my original comment (not before but after I posted) Joe Block, The Rock, the post game crew including Jack Z who's opinion I definitely respect are all discussing Polanco and his slide in performance (not just lack of development but his back tracking). So who are they comparing him to? Not one person is comparing him to anyone except himself.
And BTW - even Jack Z is being honest enough to carefully acknowledge this team should not have expectation beyond "75 wins... .500). If you excepted 85 or 90 wins you're expectation are probably not realistic" per Jack.
The phone calls are irate right now, and one call in particular (from Lou) was ripping the organization for bailing on the 2015 team - the radio crew agreed that it's a "legitimate opinion". As Jack said "it can all disappear really quickly" if you're trying to hang out without going all in.
This team is right on the edge of being a mess. They have a real bright spot in the rotation and I have no expectation this FO (ownership) will do anything to build around this rotation.
Actually, maybe we need a couple OFers. Polanco has stunned me with his lack of development.
What did you expect from Polanco? Here is some perspective:
24 year old Polanco: 22 HR, 86 RBI, .258 ave, .373 obp, .463 slg, .786 ops
24 year old McCutchen: 23 HR, 89 RBI, .259 ave, .364 obp, .456 slg, .820 ops
I don't mean this to be rude. But are you joking, being serious or arguing just to argue with me? If you think Polanco is playing well then let's just say I disagree. He looks like a cartoon figure running around the OF. I've never compared him to Cutch. I fully expected a ton of power and average.
Maybe he'll turn into an All Star (like I anticipated) tomorrow, but he is turning into one Enigma.
I just asked what you were expecting and pointing out that 24 year old McCutchen put up the same numbers on offense as 24 year old Polanco.
It's like you are calling Polanco a "bust" already (Polanco had 182 less plate appearances entering age 25 season too).
Did you think the same thing about McCutchen's development after his 24 year old season?
Why are we comparing Polanco and McCutchen at all? It makes no sense.
Sure it does. I am asking VA what he expected and then pointed out what McCutchen, an MVP and five time all star, did at the same age. I think it is a great comparison since their numbers are almost identical.
At age 25, McCutchen hit .300 in April, but nothing else (no HR, 7 RBI). He had a very good (great) May, June, July. Polanco is at that spot now.
Polanco looks awful on defense to me too. I never understood that hype about his defense unless people just think his arm made up for his lacking of squeezing a baseball. I also think McCutchen gets a bad rep on defense. His 2016 was bad, but I think (hope) it was to do with his new unfamiliar positioning.
I didn't make a comparison. You did for some reason. My comparison is what I and many others hoped for verses what we've got right now. I expected a + outfielder, a big bat with very good average, a serious threat on the bases. No comparison except to his more or less agreed upon potential. If you think he's living up to potential then I'd say you and only the most diehard homers believe this.
Since I posted my original comment (not before but after I posted) Joe Block, The Rock, the post game crew including Jack Z who's opinion I definitely respect are all discussing Polanco and his slide in performance (not just lack of development but his back tracking). So who are they comparing him to? Not one person is comparing him to anyone except himself.
And BTW - even Jack Z is being honest enough to carefully acknowledge this team should not have expectation beyond "75 wins... .500). If you excepted 85 or 90 wins you're expectation are probably not realistic" per Jack.
The phone calls are irate right now, and one call in particular (from Lou) was ripping the organization for bailing on the 2015 team - the radio crew agreed that it's a "legitimate opinion". As Jack said "it can all disappear really quickly" if you're trying to hang out without going all in.
This team is right on the edge of being a mess. They have a real bright spot in the rotation and I have no expectation this FO (ownership) will do anything to build around this rotation.
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rucker59@gmail.com
5/4 Pirates vs Reds. Cervelli's return
The FAN post game radio crew, responding to how it is Cleveland has a payroll that is "$26M more then the Pirates when the Indians average 1/2 of the Pirates attendance last year" literally just said: "I don't know, it's a legitimate question and I think we can only say the Cleveland ownership is more committed to winning". BOOM!
Here's the bottom line - this is not about me, I'll continue to spend many thousands of $$$ and go to games, but this fan base is just about ready to go ballistic. It's going to be ugly. People feel cheated and lied to.
Here's the bottom line - this is not about me, I'll continue to spend many thousands of $$$ and go to games, but this fan base is just about ready to go ballistic. It's going to be ugly. People feel cheated and lied to.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
5/4 Pirates vs Reds. Cervelli's return
I am just pointing out where McCutchen was at the same age as Polanco. So, you must have watched McCutchen bat and think he was back tracking too. Their stats are that similar.
I am going to give Polanco more time. He is 25 years old. I expect the season McCutchen put up as a 25 year old in him. I am just not going to write him off at this point. I didn't write McCutchen off either after his age 24 season. If Polanco doesn't improve, then questions will arise.
I did expect 90 wins this year. That was way before the Marte and Kang situations. Not one person who turned in their prediction thought they would win less than 77 games either. You predicted 89 wins. The Pirates stink right now. No doubt about that. But that doesn't mean they can't get better.
I am going to give Polanco more time. He is 25 years old. I expect the season McCutchen put up as a 25 year old in him. I am just not going to write him off at this point. I didn't write McCutchen off either after his age 24 season. If Polanco doesn't improve, then questions will arise.
I did expect 90 wins this year. That was way before the Marte and Kang situations. Not one person who turned in their prediction thought they would win less than 77 games either. You predicted 89 wins. The Pirates stink right now. No doubt about that. But that doesn't mean they can't get better.
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rucker59@gmail.com
5/4 Pirates vs Reds. Cervelli's return
2E252D2124253E7B7D0A332B2225256429254A0 wrote: I am just pointing out where McCutchen was at the same age as Polanco. So, you must have watched McCutchen bat and think he was back tracking too. Their stats are that similar.
I am going to give Polanco more time. He is 25 years old. I expect the season McCutchen put up as a 25 year old in him. I am just not going to write him off at this point. I didn't write McCutchen off either after his age 24 season. If Polanco doesn't improve, then questions will arise.
I did expect 90 wins this year. That was way before the Marte and Kang situations. Not one person who turned in their prediction thought they would win less than 77 games either. You predicted 89 wins. The Pirates stink right now. No doubt about that. But that doesn't mean they can't get better.
Again, not to be rude but You personally take offense on here when people put words in your mouth, but that's what you just did - you don't know what I thought of Cutch at this point in his career. I made no comment about Cutch.
Why don't you call Jack Z and ask him about the comparison to Cutch? Jack talked freely about exactly the issue I commented on.
Unless it's about Josh Harrison or Jaso, you seem to feel that any other criticism is somehow the sign of a bad fan. There are real issues that the best fans can be concerned and even frustrated about. I've been dismayed by the actions of the FO since the conclusion of the '15 season - I think my concerns have been validated.
I am going to give Polanco more time. He is 25 years old. I expect the season McCutchen put up as a 25 year old in him. I am just not going to write him off at this point. I didn't write McCutchen off either after his age 24 season. If Polanco doesn't improve, then questions will arise.
I did expect 90 wins this year. That was way before the Marte and Kang situations. Not one person who turned in their prediction thought they would win less than 77 games either. You predicted 89 wins. The Pirates stink right now. No doubt about that. But that doesn't mean they can't get better.
Again, not to be rude but You personally take offense on here when people put words in your mouth, but that's what you just did - you don't know what I thought of Cutch at this point in his career. I made no comment about Cutch.
Why don't you call Jack Z and ask him about the comparison to Cutch? Jack talked freely about exactly the issue I commented on.
Unless it's about Josh Harrison or Jaso, you seem to feel that any other criticism is somehow the sign of a bad fan. There are real issues that the best fans can be concerned and even frustrated about. I've been dismayed by the actions of the FO since the conclusion of the '15 season - I think my concerns have been validated.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
5/4 Pirates vs Reds. Cervelli's return
No, I am asking you a question. I just asked it more than once since you never answered.
I think my question is valid since their numbers were very similar. (I was shocked how similar, actually)
I know the problems with the team. I have said them many, many times. Polanco is part of that problem right now. I am not defending his play. This should be a big year for him and I think he has time to turn it around. Someone else turned their career into an All Star in May at age 25 too.
I think my question is valid since their numbers were very similar. (I was shocked how similar, actually)
I know the problems with the team. I have said them many, many times. Polanco is part of that problem right now. I am not defending his play. This should be a big year for him and I think he has time to turn it around. Someone else turned their career into an All Star in May at age 25 too.
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rucker59@gmail.com
5/4 Pirates vs Reds. Cervelli's return
474C44484D4C571214635A424B4C4C0D404C230 wrote: No, I am asking you a question. I just asked it more than once since you never answered.
I think my question is valid since their numbers were very similar. (I was shocked how similar, actually)
I know the problems with the team. I have said them many, many times. Polanco is part of that problem right now. I am not defending his play. This should be a big year for him and I think he has time to turn it around. Someone else turned their career into an All Star in May at age 25 too.
Yes. You did. Keep your opinions about what I think, unless I've actually shared what I think, to yourself. Do not presume to know what I think and if you must do so, keep your opinion to yourself.
I think my question is valid since their numbers were very similar. (I was shocked how similar, actually)
I know the problems with the team. I have said them many, many times. Polanco is part of that problem right now. I am not defending his play. This should be a big year for him and I think he has time to turn it around. Someone else turned their career into an All Star in May at age 25 too.
Yes. You did. Keep your opinions about what I think, unless I've actually shared what I think, to yourself. Do not presume to know what I think and if you must do so, keep your opinion to yourself.
5/4 Pirates vs Reds. Cervelli's return
10202C37372A2D0E223030430 wrote:
Actually, maybe we need a couple OFers. Polanco has stunned me with his lack of development.
What did you expect from Polanco? Here is some perspective:
24 year old Polanco: 22 HR, 86 RBI, .258 ave, .373 obp, .463 slg, .786 ops
24 year old McCutchen: 23 HR, 89 RBI, .259 ave, .364 obp, .456 slg, .820 ops
Almost 100 AB's into this season, I expected more than a .313 slugging percentage with 4 rbi's.
25 year old McCutchen had 31 HR 96 RBI, .327 ave
I'm not getting that feel for Polanco this year
Haha. Don't use rational thought, it will only confuse him. Polanco is incredibly disappointing this season. Unfortunately, without Kang and Marte, our lineup is screwed.
Come on guys, if this team manages to win 75, it's going to be a miracle. But there's always 2020.
Personally I don't know what so many have against 2020 that you'd try to win now. What did 2020 do to you? We're going to be stacked
Actually, maybe we need a couple OFers. Polanco has stunned me with his lack of development.
What did you expect from Polanco? Here is some perspective:
24 year old Polanco: 22 HR, 86 RBI, .258 ave, .373 obp, .463 slg, .786 ops
24 year old McCutchen: 23 HR, 89 RBI, .259 ave, .364 obp, .456 slg, .820 ops
Almost 100 AB's into this season, I expected more than a .313 slugging percentage with 4 rbi's.
25 year old McCutchen had 31 HR 96 RBI, .327 ave
I'm not getting that feel for Polanco this year
Haha. Don't use rational thought, it will only confuse him. Polanco is incredibly disappointing this season. Unfortunately, without Kang and Marte, our lineup is screwed.
Come on guys, if this team manages to win 75, it's going to be a miracle. But there's always 2020.
Personally I don't know what so many have against 2020 that you'd try to win now. What did 2020 do to you? We're going to be stacked