July 10 Standings,
Brewers 50-41
Cubs 43-45
Cards 43-45
Bucs 42-47
Reds 39-49
Bucs have played worse than any other team in Division (although Reds are just barely better with time remaining to pass the Bucs)
Can The Bucs Compete In 2018
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
Can The Bucs Compete In 2018
As frustrating as the organization's penny pinching is to the fans, it has to be even worse for the players who are directly effected. Most probably waited to see what mgt would do in April to compensate for losing Kang and Marte only to see mgt do nothing. They might have wondered who would be acquired to be the 3rd outfielder on the roster only to find mgt was satisfied with 2. The players probably wanted to believe NH that they were getting a quality pitcher (despite his history but it wouldn't be their 1st reclamation project) when Liriano, McGuire and Ramirez went to Toronto for Hutchison. But when the Pirates needed pitching, Hutchison stayed in AAA and now has been outrighted. They see their bullpen struggle because their 2nd best reliever was released to save little more money than it costs for a minimum salary.
The players may not consciously be quitting but I suspect there is little enthusiasm to do anything but get the season over with. There's likely less focus on the next game and possibly less effort in preparation. Guys getting a chance to play like Luplow, Diaz, Moroff and young pitchers are probably doing their utmost to make good impressions. But others may feel that team mgt has betrayed them.
The players may not consciously be quitting but I suspect there is little enthusiasm to do anything but get the season over with. There's likely less focus on the next game and possibly less effort in preparation. Guys getting a chance to play like Luplow, Diaz, Moroff and young pitchers are probably doing their utmost to make good impressions. But others may feel that team mgt has betrayed them.
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BucsFaninGA
Can The Bucs Compete In 2018
In watching the Bucs play over the past few weeks...I have come to the conclusion, the team is done! They should play the young guys and see how they might add to the current club. This organization has had 3 years in which we qualified for the playoffs under Bottom Line Bob Nutting. It appears to me that the front office is going to continue doing what they have always done. After almost 55 years of being a Pirates Fan, I am about as low as I was when the Drug Scandal occurred in the 80's and the years under McClatchy. Something has to give, but under the current management, it will take a change of heart by ownership...Good teams find ways to win. Good organizations work to be competitive...Teams that win championships do everything under the sun to field a competitive team and then continue to add to it! Under the current ownership, we are most concerned about the bottom line. I still hope something positive can come about...I am so tired of the continued spin which seems to be prevalent since the days of David Littlefield and co.... 
Can The Bucs Compete In 2018
I didn't see much of the series against the Reds, but the box scores sure looked ugly. No hitting against less than stellar starters.
At present, things look really dismal for the 2018 season. The only time that this team appeared to be competitive in 2017 was when McCutchen was raking. Although he was on an unsustainable tear, he has now drifted back into being a mediocre player and the team is rudderless.
I know I should respect the adage that things aren't as bleak as they look when things are going bad, or as good as they seem when things are going right, however, at present, things sure don't look good for 2018. Too much mediocrity and not enough star power. Perhaps things could turn around if all of the planets aligned, but if it were me, I wouldn't play it safe for next year. I am now solidly in the camp of 'break it up'.
So --- what does that mean to me?
1) You need to be willing to trade players who could return real value and potentially a superior return. As such, I shop Rivero who likely is at peak value. I also shop Harrison and Cole. And, I definitely shop McCutchen. Losing all of these players will hurt, but the current trajectory of this team cannot continue.
2) The main positional player I would keep is Bell. He likely is the only untouchable among the position players. Other players who I would keep likely includes both Marte and Frazier. Why? Marte can play either CF or LF and he could be a good top of the order hitter. He also may need more time to rebuild his value. Although Frazier does not have a true position, there is a good chance that he too can hit near the top of the order and play either 2nd or RF. That said, either Frazier or Marte could be traded if the return is high enough.
3) Players who I definitely try to move includes Cervelli (too much coin for the value) and Polanco (underperforming). Unfortunately, neither would return much in a deal. While I like Mercer and there does not appear to be a good trade market for a .250 hitting shortstop in his last year of control, the Bucs should at least look to see if he could return some talent.
4) Outside of Cole, Nova and Rivero, I likely hold onto the other starting pitchers because they are young, inexpensive and have shown some talent. And, outside of Rivero, I doubt any of the current relievers has any real value.
2017 has been a major disappointment. Unfortunately, it currently appears that 2018 will be worse, and potentially much worse.
At present, things look really dismal for the 2018 season. The only time that this team appeared to be competitive in 2017 was when McCutchen was raking. Although he was on an unsustainable tear, he has now drifted back into being a mediocre player and the team is rudderless.
I know I should respect the adage that things aren't as bleak as they look when things are going bad, or as good as they seem when things are going right, however, at present, things sure don't look good for 2018. Too much mediocrity and not enough star power. Perhaps things could turn around if all of the planets aligned, but if it were me, I wouldn't play it safe for next year. I am now solidly in the camp of 'break it up'.
So --- what does that mean to me?
1) You need to be willing to trade players who could return real value and potentially a superior return. As such, I shop Rivero who likely is at peak value. I also shop Harrison and Cole. And, I definitely shop McCutchen. Losing all of these players will hurt, but the current trajectory of this team cannot continue.
2) The main positional player I would keep is Bell. He likely is the only untouchable among the position players. Other players who I would keep likely includes both Marte and Frazier. Why? Marte can play either CF or LF and he could be a good top of the order hitter. He also may need more time to rebuild his value. Although Frazier does not have a true position, there is a good chance that he too can hit near the top of the order and play either 2nd or RF. That said, either Frazier or Marte could be traded if the return is high enough.
3) Players who I definitely try to move includes Cervelli (too much coin for the value) and Polanco (underperforming). Unfortunately, neither would return much in a deal. While I like Mercer and there does not appear to be a good trade market for a .250 hitting shortstop in his last year of control, the Bucs should at least look to see if he could return some talent.
4) Outside of Cole, Nova and Rivero, I likely hold onto the other starting pitchers because they are young, inexpensive and have shown some talent. And, outside of Rivero, I doubt any of the current relievers has any real value.
2017 has been a major disappointment. Unfortunately, it currently appears that 2018 will be worse, and potentially much worse.
Can The Bucs Compete In 2018
As for selling off, ( which I don't want us to do) I think that's a pretty good breakdown.
Marte would be selling quite low, Imo, considering his suspension and less than great performance. Otherwise, those you named could all be traded for minor league talent and not be selling at low value (for them)
Bell would clearly make sense to keep since he would be here to produce if/when the new group of awesome can't miss prospects shows up ready to tear up the big leagues.
Then we can need 2-3 players to add to that group, the org refuse to do it, and rebuild it all again.
Marte would be selling quite low, Imo, considering his suspension and less than great performance. Otherwise, those you named could all be traded for minor league talent and not be selling at low value (for them)
Bell would clearly make sense to keep since he would be here to produce if/when the new group of awesome can't miss prospects shows up ready to tear up the big leagues.
Then we can need 2-3 players to add to that group, the org refuse to do it, and rebuild it all again.
Can The Bucs Compete In 2018
333A32232D570 wrote: As for selling off, ( which I don't want us to do) I think that's a pretty good breakdown.
Marte would be selling quite low, Imo, considering his suspension and less than great performance. Otherwise, those you named could all be traded for minor league talent and not be selling at low value (for them)
Bell would clearly make sense to keep since he would be here to produce if/when the new group of awesome can't miss prospects shows up ready to tear up the big leagues.
Then we can need 2-3 players to add to that group, the org refuse to do it, and rebuild it all again.
You would be selling low on virtually every tradeable asset you have, absent Rivero. Do people expect to get a Chapman return for him? I would keep him. Although a good closer is meaningless if the roster is full of prospects and crap.
Marte would be selling quite low, Imo, considering his suspension and less than great performance. Otherwise, those you named could all be traded for minor league talent and not be selling at low value (for them)
Bell would clearly make sense to keep since he would be here to produce if/when the new group of awesome can't miss prospects shows up ready to tear up the big leagues.
Then we can need 2-3 players to add to that group, the org refuse to do it, and rebuild it all again.
You would be selling low on virtually every tradeable asset you have, absent Rivero. Do people expect to get a Chapman return for him? I would keep him. Although a good closer is meaningless if the roster is full of prospects and crap.
Can The Bucs Compete In 2018
Harrison, Cutch, and Mercer were listed, they're all having decent years vs what they could be expected to put up.
Cervelli has to have almost no trade value at all, so I guess you could hold onto him and hope he can gain some value before the deadline next year. I doubt he will ever have any value again now that he's having concussion issues along with his female parts hurting everyday
Cole you're right for sure. We should hold him for a rebound before trading.
Cervelli has to have almost no trade value at all, so I guess you could hold onto him and hope he can gain some value before the deadline next year. I doubt he will ever have any value again now that he's having concussion issues along with his female parts hurting everyday
Cole you're right for sure. We should hold him for a rebound before trading.