Williams+Kuhl 2018 Starting pitching and beyond

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dmetz
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:52 pm

Williams+Kuhl 2018 Starting pitching and beyond

Post by dmetz »

494C4B4D454F564B4251575A230 wrote: That he is throwing harder now than he did when he was in the majors this year is an indisputable fact.  He was not upper 90s in the majors and he was all over the place.  I am not convinced, though, that he is really any better, and I won't be until he does it in the majors.  I do not want him traded, though, unless he fetches a really good return.  He just has too high a ceiling to give up on yet.  If we can move him one-for-one for a high-ceiling infield prospect, though, I would not complain.


I agree he's throwing harder than when he was trying to throw strikes in the majors this year, but not last year.   If you look at his velocities previously in AAA and his BB/9 in AAA now vs previously in AAA he's similar.



Complete dominance.  And even better k/bb numbers now this time in a small sample.   



I hope we can trick somebody into taking him as a top of the rotation prospect. He very well might be one someday, but the probability that he will be one SOON seems slim to me.



He's going to burn up his arb years with us being a back of the rotation guy and then when/if he figures it out, he will be pitching for the Yanks
ChitownBucco
Posts: 492
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:10 pm

Williams+Kuhl 2018 Starting pitching and beyond

Post by ChitownBucco »

Kuhl with a 3.30 ERA in June,July,August spanning 11 starts now
Bobster21

Williams+Kuhl 2018 Starting pitching and beyond

Post by Bobster21 »

230809140F170E221503030F600 wrote: Kuhl with a 3.30 ERA in June,July,August spanning 11 starts now
It's significant that Kuhl's velocity dramatically increased this year. Last year, his FB averaged 90-93. This year, it's consistently in the high 90s. That's a new weapon and allows for a different style of pitching. I think it's understandable that Kuhl has struggled at times this year as he transitions from the type of pitching that got him here to a guy who can now mix his other pitches with a plus FB. And he's been getting better and better as the season progresses. Looks like he may have a very bright future.



He is currently #1 in the NL for fewest HRs per innings pitched.
dogknot17@yahoo.co

Williams+Kuhl 2018 Starting pitching and beyond

Post by dogknot17@yahoo.co »

That might have been Kuhl's best performance (I did miss the first inning). He rarely gets flustered, which I like. He also supports his teammates after great plays. I respect that.



I am glad Kuhl turned it around. I think he is a good pitcher, but I was disappointed with his start to the season. It's like he picked it up once their was some rotation shuffling and the talk of Brault in the minors.
steve49

Williams+Kuhl 2018 Starting pitching and beyond

Post by steve49 »

555C54454B310 wrote: Windup?  Stretch?  Don't really care how Glasnow goes about it as long as one or the other works to make him the top of the rotation guy as soon as possible.


Why it makes sense for Glasnow to pitch from the stretch is because he's 6'8". The toughest thing for guys this length is to repeat the same delivery over and over. That's why you don't see a whole lot of pitchers his height. This is probably why Randy Johnson also pitched from the stretch ? I'm really surprised to read all the negative posts regarding him ditching the windup. The guy is dominating AAA , throwing 3-4 MPH harder and is showing WAY better command and these guys want to poo hoo it ? What's the difference between a sour grapes Pirate fan and a puppy ?




1)He's not throwing harder

2) his command is so far a little bit better, not much.  Its too small of a sample and too small of a difference to say for sure

3)he can throw the ball underhand for all that it matters



Remember how Tony Sanchez was throwing great and had figured it out yadda yadda all the reports coming from P2? 










Where do you get your info from ? Here's what Tim Williams views from watching. Are you also watching to make a statement like is command is a little better but not by much.



"What we are seeing from him since he was sent down in early June is someone who attacks hitters. His velocity is the best we have seen from him, hitting 100 multiple times and 99 MPH has been a regular guest on the radar gun. It’s not just in Indianapolis, other parks have the same numbers. He hit 99 a few times last year during the season, but he’s now hitting it more per game than he did all of last year. When his velocity drops later in starts, it’s now in the 94-97 range, instead of 92-94 we saw late in games last year. Part of that could just be him throwing more strikes, so he isn’t having as many strenuous pitches throughout the game due to long innings. In fact, longer innings are rarely showing up anymore, when they would happen 2-3 times a game last year.



The fastball isn’t just faster, it’s around the plate more. He was all over the place last year in Triple-A, often getting help from impatient hitters, which wasn’t happening when he went to the majors. Now he is blowing fastballs by batters in the zone, instead of them chasing the pitches. His curve is being thrown more often for strikes and he is using his changeup effectively. In yesterday’s game, the pitch was getting a swinging strike in the zone almost every time. He kept catchers very busy blocking pitches last year, but that isn’t happening this time around. Of course there are some wild pitches here and there, but it’s a huge difference."
johnfluharty

Williams+Kuhl 2018 Starting pitching and beyond

Post by johnfluharty »

His last 10 games....






DATEOPPWLERASVIPHERBBSO
06/15/2017@NOR101.5006.02148
06/20/2017TOL002.4505.042411
06/26/2017DUR001.5007.020212
07/01/2017LOU101.9005.242311
07/06/2017@COL101.8405.25127
07/14/2017LOU101.4907.03006
07/20/2017@GWN101.4906.041511
07/25/2017ROC101.4607.04137
07/30/2017PAW001.4606.131112
TOTALS601.46055.23192485




I'd like see him get into the 7th more consistently because that means that he is being more efficient with his pitches.  3 of his last 4 games look good.  He needs more like those.
Bobster21

Williams+Kuhl 2018 Starting pitching and beyond

Post by Bobster21 »

1116071407565B620 wrote: Windup?  Stretch?  Don't really care how Glasnow goes about it as long as one or the other works to make him the top of the rotation guy as soon as possible.


Why it makes sense for Glasnow to pitch from the stretch is because he's 6'8". The toughest thing for guys this length is to repeat the same delivery over and over. That's why you don't see a whole lot of pitchers his height. This is probably why Randy Johnson also pitched from the stretch ? I'm really surprised to read all the negative posts regarding him ditching the windup. The guy is dominating AAA , throwing 3-4 MPH harder and is showing WAY better command and these guys want to poo hoo it ? What's the difference between a sour grapes Pirate fan and a puppy ?




1)He's not throwing harder

2) his command is so far a little bit better, not much.  Its too small of a sample and too small of a difference to say for sure

3)he can throw the ball underhand for all that it matters



Remember how Tony Sanchez was throwing great and had figured it out yadda yadda all the reports coming from P2? 










Where do you get your info from ? Here's what Tim Williams views from watching. Are you also watching to make a statement like is command is a little better but not by much.



"What we are seeing from him since he was sent down in early June is someone who attacks hitters. His velocity is the best we have seen from him, hitting 100 multiple times and 99 MPH has been a regular guest on the radar gun. It’s not just in Indianapolis, other parks have the same numbers. He hit 99 a few times last year during the season, but he’s now hitting it more per game than he did all of last year. When his velocity drops later in starts, it’s now in the 94-97 range, instead of 92-94 we saw late in games last year. Part of that could just be him throwing more strikes, so he isn’t having as many strenuous pitches throughout the game due to long innings. In fact, longer innings are rarely showing up anymore, when they would happen 2-3 times a game last year.



The fastball isn’t just faster, it’s around the plate more. He was all over the place last year in Triple-A, often getting help from impatient hitters, which wasn’t happening when he went to the majors. Now he is blowing fastballs by batters in the zone, instead of them chasing the pitches. His curve is being thrown more often for strikes and he is using his changeup effectively. In yesterday’s game, the pitch was getting a swinging strike in the zone almost every time. He kept catchers very busy blocking pitches last year, but that isn’t happening this time around. Of course there are some wild pitches here and there, but it’s a huge difference."
That's good to hear, Steve. It's not so important that he blows away AAA hitters but rather how he's doing it so we have an idea how it will translate to MLB. Sounds like he may be on the path to success at the MLB level!
steve49

Williams+Kuhl 2018 Starting pitching and beyond

Post by steve49 »

220F02131405125251600 wrote: Windup?  Stretch?  Don't really care how Glasnow goes about it as long as one or the other works to make him the top of the rotation guy as soon as possible.


Why it makes sense for Glasnow to pitch from the stretch is because he's 6'8". The toughest thing for guys this length is to repeat the same delivery over and over. That's why you don't see a whole lot of pitchers his height. This is probably why Randy Johnson also pitched from the stretch ? I'm really surprised to read all the negative posts regarding him ditching the windup. The guy is dominating AAA , throwing 3-4 MPH harder and is showing WAY better command and these guys want to poo hoo it ? What's the difference between a sour grapes Pirate fan and a puppy ?




1)He's not throwing harder

2) his command is so far a little bit better, not much.  Its too small of a sample and too small of a difference to say for sure

3)he can throw the ball underhand for all that it matters



Remember how Tony Sanchez was throwing great and had figured it out yadda yadda all the reports coming from P2? 










Where do you get your info from ? Here's what Tim Williams views from watching. Are you also watching to make a statement like is command is a little better but not by much.



"What we are seeing from him since he was sent down in early June is someone who attacks hitters. His velocity is the best we have seen from him, hitting 100 multiple times and 99 MPH has been a regular guest on the radar gun. It’s not just in Indianapolis, other parks have the same numbers. He hit 99 a few times last year during the season, but he’s now hitting it more per game than he did all of last year. When his velocity drops later in starts, it’s now in the 94-97 range, instead of 92-94 we saw late in games last year. Part of that could just be him throwing more strikes, so he isn’t having as many strenuous pitches throughout the game due to long innings. In fact, longer innings are rarely showing up anymore, when they would happen 2-3 times a game last year.



The fastball isn’t just faster, it’s around the plate more. He was all over the place last year in Triple-A, often getting help from impatient hitters, which wasn’t happening when he went to the majors. Now he is blowing fastballs by batters in the zone, instead of them chasing the pitches. His curve is being thrown more often for strikes and he is using his changeup effectively. In yesterday’s game, the pitch was getting a swinging strike in the zone almost every time. He kept catchers very busy blocking pitches last year, but that isn’t happening this time around. Of course there are some wild pitches here and there, but it’s a huge difference."
That's good to hear, Steve. It's not so important that he blows away AAA hitters but rather how he's doing it so we have an idea how it will translate to MLB. Sounds like he may be on the path to success at the MLB level!




It's great news if Tim Williams is accurate but it seems like dmetz has a different source that is reporting much differently. Unless he's just posting with no knowledge to the subject matter ? I doubt anyone would find it prudent to just spout off without any basis. So I've tempered my hopes as obviously there are different scouting reports out there ?
dmetz
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:52 pm

Williams+Kuhl 2018 Starting pitching and beyond

Post by dmetz »

23243526356469500 wrote: Windup?  Stretch?  Don't really care how Glasnow goes about it as long as one or the other works to make him the top of the rotation guy as soon as possible.


Why it makes sense for Glasnow to pitch from the stretch is because he's 6'8". The toughest thing for guys this length is to repeat the same delivery over and over. That's why you don't see a whole lot of pitchers his height. This is probably why Randy Johnson also pitched from the stretch ? I'm really surprised to read all the negative posts regarding him ditching the windup. The guy is dominating AAA , throwing 3-4 MPH harder and is showing WAY better command and these guys want to poo hoo it ? What's the difference between a sour grapes Pirate fan and a puppy ?




1)He's not throwing harder

2) his command is so far a little bit better, not much.  Its too small of a sample and too small of a difference to say for sure

3)he can throw the ball underhand for all that it matters



Remember how Tony Sanchez was throwing great and had figured it out yadda yadda all the reports coming from P2? 










Where do you get your info from ? Here's what Tim Williams views from watching. Are you also watching to make a statement like is command is a little better but not by much.



"What we are seeing from him since he was sent down in early June is someone who attacks hitters. His velocity is the best we have seen from him, hitting 100 multiple times and 99 MPH has been a regular guest on the radar gun. It’s not just in Indianapolis, other parks have the same numbers. He hit 99 a few times last year during the season, but he’s now hitting it more per game than he did all of last year. When his velocity drops later in starts, it’s now in the 94-97 range, instead of 92-94 we saw late in games last year. Part of that could just be him throwing more strikes, so he isn’t having as many strenuous pitches throughout the game due to long innings. In fact, longer innings are rarely showing up anymore, when they would happen 2-3 times a game last year.



The fastball isn’t just faster, it’s around the plate more. He was all over the place last year in Triple-A, often getting help from impatient hitters, which wasn’t happening when he went to the majors. Now he is blowing fastballs by batters in the zone, instead of them chasing the pitches. His curve is being thrown more often for strikes and he is using his changeup effectively. In yesterday’s game, the pitch was getting a swinging strike in the zone almost every time. He kept catchers very busy blocking pitches last year, but that isn’t happening this time around. Of course there are some wild pitches here and there, but it’s a huge difference."
That's good to hear, Steve. It's not so important that he blows away AAA hitters but rather how he's doing it so we have an idea how it will translate to MLB. Sounds like he may be on the path to success at the MLB level!




It's great news if Tim Williams is accurate but it seems like dmetz has a different source that is reporting much differently. Unless he's just posting with no knowledge to the subject matter ? I doubt anyone would find it prudent to just spout off without any basis. So I've tempered my hopes as obviously there are different scouting reports out there ?




Ok.  That's fine.  I'm just going to back off it and note that Tim Williams is not a scout.  I understand P2 has a cult-like following and questioning the opinions (and facts) focused on there is grounds for being slandered to many, HOWEVER I am not one of those followers.    



You can't burn me at the stake for being an apostate to P2 since I've never believed in that religion. 



We will all find out the truth to these "scouting reports" in very short order.  Glasnow will be up shortly.  If he is able to be a dominant pitcher, it will change everything for 2018.    I've never seen a pitcher as screwed up as he was become a good pitcher a few months and less than 100 innings later.  his minor league stat lines aren't a lot better than what they were before he was initially called up, particularly his bb/9 and it's a small sample.  it's total domination.   It was before, and it still is.



his walk rates are still high, his minor league K rates are astronomical, and his h/9 are tiny.



He was unable to hold any of those upon callup, twice in two different seasons. his walks were actually the CLOSEST to his minor league lines, while his H/9 skyrocketed and his k's fell away significantly.
RichD
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:13 pm

Williams+Kuhl 2018 Starting pitching and beyond

Post by RichD »

Guy throws way to many pitches for my taste. Keep your Nolan Ryans and Roger Clemens .I want a team full of Tom Glavines and Greg Maddux.



Hope he gets a late call up get another 4-5 start going into off season.
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