Good News: Cherington has waited for an opportunity to build an organization from the "ground up"
Good News: Cherington has drafted well in Boston bringing a lot of young talent to the Red Sox who shined last year after his departure
Good News: Coonelly is gone! And Williams does not seem like a guy who will mess daily with his GM's strategies
Good News?: We'll get the right manager?
I'm going out on a limb here as I haven't seen it reported anywhere, but I have a feeling that NH has still been included in the process of who might replace him. His history with Cherington would serve me to believe that he was also NH's guy. And while we have a consulting firm and everyone else who was involved (and he obviously didn't interview his potential replacements), I think NH's opinion was included at some level in the decision.
Personally I see this as a positive as it might help maintain some continuity within the organization. And to me lack of continuity is the biggest potential problem when an organization goes through such a major shake-up at the top. That said, I think we'll see Cherington be more aggressive than Neal (hard not to be) and he's going to put some of his people in critical spots (bye, bye Kyle Stark).
I am also in what seems to be a huge minority who thinks that the MLB group is just not that bad. We have some really good pieces to build around on offensive. But we need some pitching, both SP and BP, really bad. And we need some of the current pitchers to take a step forward (we were awfully good in May before Taillon went down). But with the right additions, I think we can be much more competitive than most of the voices I'm hearing.
Good News: Coonelly is gone! I honestly think this is huge!
Sources: Ben Cherington has accepted Pirates’ GM job
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
UtahPirate
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:36 pm
-
rucker59@gmail.com
Sources: Ben Cherington has accepted Pirates’ GM job
55746168506972617465000 wrote: Good News: Cherington has waited for an opportunity to build an organization from the "ground up"
Good News: Cherington has drafted well in Boston bringing a lot of young talent to the Red Sox who shined last year after his departure
Good News: Coonelly is gone! And Williams does not seem like a guy who will mess daily with his GM's strategies
Good News?: We'll get the right manager?
I'm going out on a limb here as I haven't seen it reported anywhere, but I have a feeling that NH has still been included in the process of who might replace him. His history with Cherington would serve me to believe that he was also NH's guy. And while we have a consulting firm and everyone else who was involved (and he obviously didn't interview his potential replacements), I think NH's opinion was included at some level in the decision.
Personally I see this as a positive as it might help maintain some continuity within the organization. And to me lack of continuity is the biggest potential problem when an organization goes through such a major shake-up at the top. That said, I think we'll see Cherington be more aggressive than Neal (hard not to be) and he's going to put some of his people in critical spots (bye, bye Kyle Stark).
I am also in what seems to be a huge minority who thinks that the MLB group is just not that bad. We have some really good pieces to build around on offensive. But we need some pitching, both SP and BP, really bad. And we need some of the current pitchers to take a step forward (we were awfully good in May before Taillon went down). But with the right additions, I think we can be much more competitive than most of the voices I'm hearing.
Good News: Coonelly is gone! I honestly think this is huge!
I don't think the core is bad at all. In another organization it might make sense to build around. But what the Pirates lack will be very expensive. That means they will plug holes rather than build.
I guess it depends on our goals: the team can possibly stay in a WC race next year but would have no real prospect of winning anything. Or plan for a bigger future by blowing this up. Unless Nutting has promised a material up-grade in payroll, I tend to favor starting all over.
Good News: Cherington has drafted well in Boston bringing a lot of young talent to the Red Sox who shined last year after his departure
Good News: Coonelly is gone! And Williams does not seem like a guy who will mess daily with his GM's strategies
Good News?: We'll get the right manager?
I'm going out on a limb here as I haven't seen it reported anywhere, but I have a feeling that NH has still been included in the process of who might replace him. His history with Cherington would serve me to believe that he was also NH's guy. And while we have a consulting firm and everyone else who was involved (and he obviously didn't interview his potential replacements), I think NH's opinion was included at some level in the decision.
Personally I see this as a positive as it might help maintain some continuity within the organization. And to me lack of continuity is the biggest potential problem when an organization goes through such a major shake-up at the top. That said, I think we'll see Cherington be more aggressive than Neal (hard not to be) and he's going to put some of his people in critical spots (bye, bye Kyle Stark).
I am also in what seems to be a huge minority who thinks that the MLB group is just not that bad. We have some really good pieces to build around on offensive. But we need some pitching, both SP and BP, really bad. And we need some of the current pitchers to take a step forward (we were awfully good in May before Taillon went down). But with the right additions, I think we can be much more competitive than most of the voices I'm hearing.
Good News: Coonelly is gone! I honestly think this is huge!
I don't think the core is bad at all. In another organization it might make sense to build around. But what the Pirates lack will be very expensive. That means they will plug holes rather than build.
I guess it depends on our goals: the team can possibly stay in a WC race next year but would have no real prospect of winning anything. Or plan for a bigger future by blowing this up. Unless Nutting has promised a material up-grade in payroll, I tend to favor starting all over.
Sources: Ben Cherington has accepted Pirates’ GM job
A number of years ago I watched Billy Beane being interviewed at the Winter Meetings. He talked about rebuilds. His theory was that you had to do it when minor fiddling was needed. If you wanted until you hit ground, it would take a very long time to rebuild. We are now at the point where he suggests - that is, you don't have to ditch everyone and start over. I suggest Marte and Bell with the idea of getting good AA or AAA players, with actual promise for the future.
Sources: Ben Cherington has accepted Pirates’ GM job
6A6D7B737D6A2D21587F75797174367B7775180 wrote: Good News: Cherington has waited for an opportunity to build an organization from the "ground up"
Good News: Cherington has drafted well in Boston bringing a lot of young talent to the Red Sox who shined last year after his departure
Good News: Coonelly is gone! And Williams does not seem like a guy who will mess daily with his GM's strategies
Good News?: We'll get the right manager?
I'm going out on a limb here as I haven't seen it reported anywhere, but I have a feeling that NH has still been included in the process of who might replace him. His history with Cherington would serve me to believe that he was also NH's guy. And while we have a consulting firm and everyone else who was involved (and he obviously didn't interview his potential replacements), I think NH's opinion was included at some level in the decision.
Personally I see this as a positive as it might help maintain some continuity within the organization. And to me lack of continuity is the biggest potential problem when an organization goes through such a major shake-up at the top. That said, I think we'll see Cherington be more aggressive than Neal (hard not to be) and he's going to put some of his people in critical spots (bye, bye Kyle Stark).
I am also in what seems to be a huge minority who thinks that the MLB group is just not that bad. We have some really good pieces to build around on offensive. But we need some pitching, both SP and BP, really bad. And we need some of the current pitchers to take a step forward (we were awfully good in May before Taillon went down). But with the right additions, I think we can be much more competitive than most of the voices I'm hearing.
Good News: Coonelly is gone! I honestly think this is huge!
I don't think the core is bad at all. In another organization it might make sense to build around. But what the Pirates lack will be very expensive. That means they will plug holes rather than build.
I guess it depends on our goals: the team can possibly stay in a WC race next year but would have no real prospect of winning anything. Or plan for a bigger future by blowing this up. Unless Nutting has promised a material up-grade in payroll, I tend to favor starting all over.
Who do you consider core?
Good News: Cherington has drafted well in Boston bringing a lot of young talent to the Red Sox who shined last year after his departure
Good News: Coonelly is gone! And Williams does not seem like a guy who will mess daily with his GM's strategies
Good News?: We'll get the right manager?
I'm going out on a limb here as I haven't seen it reported anywhere, but I have a feeling that NH has still been included in the process of who might replace him. His history with Cherington would serve me to believe that he was also NH's guy. And while we have a consulting firm and everyone else who was involved (and he obviously didn't interview his potential replacements), I think NH's opinion was included at some level in the decision.
Personally I see this as a positive as it might help maintain some continuity within the organization. And to me lack of continuity is the biggest potential problem when an organization goes through such a major shake-up at the top. That said, I think we'll see Cherington be more aggressive than Neal (hard not to be) and he's going to put some of his people in critical spots (bye, bye Kyle Stark).
I am also in what seems to be a huge minority who thinks that the MLB group is just not that bad. We have some really good pieces to build around on offensive. But we need some pitching, both SP and BP, really bad. And we need some of the current pitchers to take a step forward (we were awfully good in May before Taillon went down). But with the right additions, I think we can be much more competitive than most of the voices I'm hearing.
Good News: Coonelly is gone! I honestly think this is huge!
I don't think the core is bad at all. In another organization it might make sense to build around. But what the Pirates lack will be very expensive. That means they will plug holes rather than build.
I guess it depends on our goals: the team can possibly stay in a WC race next year but would have no real prospect of winning anything. Or plan for a bigger future by blowing this up. Unless Nutting has promised a material up-grade in payroll, I tend to favor starting all over.
Who do you consider core?
-
fjk090852-7
- Posts: 3745
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm
Sources: Ben Cherington has accepted Pirates’ GM job
41737F7F6B597A737E7B7473120 wrote: Assistant GM Kyle Stark fired . . . err, "parted ways"
It is also being reported that Larry Broadway was let go today.
It is also being reported that Larry Broadway was let go today.
Sources: Ben Cherington has accepted Pirates’ GM job
4344525A5443040871565C50585D1F525E5C310 wrote: Good News: Cherington has waited for an opportunity to build an organization from the "ground up"
Good News: Cherington has drafted well in Boston bringing a lot of young talent to the Red Sox who shined last year after his departure
Good News: Coonelly is gone! And Williams does not seem like a guy who will mess daily with his GM's strategies
Good News?: We'll get the right manager?
I'm going out on a limb here as I haven't seen it reported anywhere, but I have a feeling that NH has still been included in the process of who might replace him. His history with Cherington would serve me to believe that he was also NH's guy. And while we have a consulting firm and everyone else who was involved (and he obviously didn't interview his potential replacements), I think NH's opinion was included at some level in the decision.
Personally I see this as a positive as it might help maintain some continuity within the organization. And to me lack of continuity is the biggest potential problem when an organization goes through such a major shake-up at the top. That said, I think we'll see Cherington be more aggressive than Neal (hard not to be) and he's going to put some of his people in critical spots (bye, bye Kyle Stark).
I am also in what seems to be a huge minority who thinks that the MLB group is just not that bad. We have some really good pieces to build around on offensive. But we need some pitching, both SP and BP, really bad. And we need some of the current pitchers to take a step forward (we were awfully good in May before Taillon went down). But with the right additions, I think we can be much more competitive than most of the voices I'm hearing.
Good News: Coonelly is gone! I honestly think this is huge!
I don't think the core is bad at all. In another organization it might make sense to build around. But what the Pirates lack will be very expensive. That means they will plug holes rather than build.
I guess it depends on our goals: the team can possibly stay in a WC race next year but would have no real prospect of winning anything. Or plan for a bigger future by blowing this up. Unless Nutting has promised a material up-grade in payroll, I tend to favor starting all over.
Yeah, the Pirates can't go out and buy pitching. If they trade for pitching to help significantly next year that is going to weaken the core and the farm system.
What positions do the Pirates have a surplus of talent?
Infield with Newman, Frazier, Tucker, Hayes?
Good News: Cherington has drafted well in Boston bringing a lot of young talent to the Red Sox who shined last year after his departure
Good News: Coonelly is gone! And Williams does not seem like a guy who will mess daily with his GM's strategies
Good News?: We'll get the right manager?
I'm going out on a limb here as I haven't seen it reported anywhere, but I have a feeling that NH has still been included in the process of who might replace him. His history with Cherington would serve me to believe that he was also NH's guy. And while we have a consulting firm and everyone else who was involved (and he obviously didn't interview his potential replacements), I think NH's opinion was included at some level in the decision.
Personally I see this as a positive as it might help maintain some continuity within the organization. And to me lack of continuity is the biggest potential problem when an organization goes through such a major shake-up at the top. That said, I think we'll see Cherington be more aggressive than Neal (hard not to be) and he's going to put some of his people in critical spots (bye, bye Kyle Stark).
I am also in what seems to be a huge minority who thinks that the MLB group is just not that bad. We have some really good pieces to build around on offensive. But we need some pitching, both SP and BP, really bad. And we need some of the current pitchers to take a step forward (we were awfully good in May before Taillon went down). But with the right additions, I think we can be much more competitive than most of the voices I'm hearing.
Good News: Coonelly is gone! I honestly think this is huge!
I don't think the core is bad at all. In another organization it might make sense to build around. But what the Pirates lack will be very expensive. That means they will plug holes rather than build.
I guess it depends on our goals: the team can possibly stay in a WC race next year but would have no real prospect of winning anything. Or plan for a bigger future by blowing this up. Unless Nutting has promised a material up-grade in payroll, I tend to favor starting all over.
Yeah, the Pirates can't go out and buy pitching. If they trade for pitching to help significantly next year that is going to weaken the core and the farm system.
What positions do the Pirates have a surplus of talent?
Infield with Newman, Frazier, Tucker, Hayes?
-
rucker59@gmail.com
Sources: Ben Cherington has accepted Pirates’ GM job
5B4B4A7D6B6B67080 wrote: Good News: Cherington has waited for an opportunity to build an organization from the "ground up"
Good News: Cherington has drafted well in Boston bringing a lot of young talent to the Red Sox who shined last year after his departure
Good News: Coonelly is gone! And Williams does not seem like a guy who will mess daily with his GM's strategies
Good News?: We'll get the right manager?
I'm going out on a limb here as I haven't seen it reported anywhere, but I have a feeling that NH has still been included in the process of who might replace him. His history with Cherington would serve me to believe that he was also NH's guy. And while we have a consulting firm and everyone else who was involved (and he obviously didn't interview his potential replacements), I think NH's opinion was included at some level in the decision.
Personally I see this as a positive as it might help maintain some continuity within the organization. And to me lack of continuity is the biggest potential problem when an organization goes through such a major shake-up at the top. That said, I think we'll see Cherington be more aggressive than Neal (hard not to be) and he's going to put some of his people in critical spots (bye, bye Kyle Stark).
I am also in what seems to be a huge minority who thinks that the MLB group is just not that bad. We have some really good pieces to build around on offensive. But we need some pitching, both SP and BP, really bad. And we need some of the current pitchers to take a step forward (we were awfully good in May before Taillon went down). But with the right additions, I think we can be much more competitive than most of the voices I'm hearing.
Good News: Coonelly is gone! I honestly think this is huge!
I don't think the core is bad at all. In another organization it might make sense to build around. But what the Pirates lack will be very expensive. That means they will plug holes rather than build.
I guess it depends on our goals: the team can possibly stay in a WC race next year but would have no real prospect of winning anything. Or plan for a bigger future by blowing this up. Unless Nutting has promised a material up-grade in payroll, I tend to favor starting all over.
Who do you consider core?
If there was a good pitching staff I would have no problem going into this season with the current team. Every position could be upgraded and depending on trade/FA opportunities I’d love to see some upgrades. The lineup is not the reason I lean towards starting over, but this lineup had no chance to cover for a weak staff.
Good News: Cherington has drafted well in Boston bringing a lot of young talent to the Red Sox who shined last year after his departure
Good News: Coonelly is gone! And Williams does not seem like a guy who will mess daily with his GM's strategies
Good News?: We'll get the right manager?
I'm going out on a limb here as I haven't seen it reported anywhere, but I have a feeling that NH has still been included in the process of who might replace him. His history with Cherington would serve me to believe that he was also NH's guy. And while we have a consulting firm and everyone else who was involved (and he obviously didn't interview his potential replacements), I think NH's opinion was included at some level in the decision.
Personally I see this as a positive as it might help maintain some continuity within the organization. And to me lack of continuity is the biggest potential problem when an organization goes through such a major shake-up at the top. That said, I think we'll see Cherington be more aggressive than Neal (hard not to be) and he's going to put some of his people in critical spots (bye, bye Kyle Stark).
I am also in what seems to be a huge minority who thinks that the MLB group is just not that bad. We have some really good pieces to build around on offensive. But we need some pitching, both SP and BP, really bad. And we need some of the current pitchers to take a step forward (we were awfully good in May before Taillon went down). But with the right additions, I think we can be much more competitive than most of the voices I'm hearing.
Good News: Coonelly is gone! I honestly think this is huge!
I don't think the core is bad at all. In another organization it might make sense to build around. But what the Pirates lack will be very expensive. That means they will plug holes rather than build.
I guess it depends on our goals: the team can possibly stay in a WC race next year but would have no real prospect of winning anything. Or plan for a bigger future by blowing this up. Unless Nutting has promised a material up-grade in payroll, I tend to favor starting all over.
Who do you consider core?
If there was a good pitching staff I would have no problem going into this season with the current team. Every position could be upgraded and depending on trade/FA opportunities I’d love to see some upgrades. The lineup is not the reason I lean towards starting over, but this lineup had no chance to cover for a weak staff.
Sources: Ben Cherington has accepted Pirates’ GM job
I'm inclined to believe that the pitching staff is the weakest team area. The position players can be okay - not strong, but okay - but they are limping along on pitching. Upgrading defense would help the pitching, but that can mostly be done internally. To the extent they have funds or tradable capital, the first usage of that should likely be on pitching.
Sources: Ben Cherington has accepted Pirates’ GM job
1314020A0413545821060C00080D4F020E0C610 wrote: Good News: Cherington has waited for an opportunity to build an organization from the "ground up"
Good News: Cherington has drafted well in Boston bringing a lot of young talent to the Red Sox who shined last year after his departure
Good News: Coonelly is gone! And Williams does not seem like a guy who will mess daily with his GM's strategies
Good News?: We'll get the right manager?
I'm going out on a limb here as I haven't seen it reported anywhere, but I have a feeling that NH has still been included in the process of who might replace him. His history with Cherington would serve me to believe that he was also NH's guy. And while we have a consulting firm and everyone else who was involved (and he obviously didn't interview his potential replacements), I think NH's opinion was included at some level in the decision.
Personally I see this as a positive as it might help maintain some continuity within the organization. And to me lack of continuity is the biggest potential problem when an organization goes through such a major shake-up at the top. That said, I think we'll see Cherington be more aggressive than Neal (hard not to be) and he's going to put some of his people in critical spots (bye, bye Kyle Stark).
I am also in what seems to be a huge minority who thinks that the MLB group is just not that bad. We have some really good pieces to build around on offensive. But we need some pitching, both SP and BP, really bad. And we need some of the current pitchers to take a step forward (we were awfully good in May before Taillon went down). But with the right additions, I think we can be much more competitive than most of the voices I'm hearing.
Good News: Coonelly is gone! I honestly think this is huge!
I don't think the core is bad at all. In another organization it might make sense to build around. But what the Pirates lack will be very expensive. That means they will plug holes rather than build.
I guess it depends on our goals: the team can possibly stay in a WC race next year but would have no real prospect of winning anything. Or plan for a bigger future by blowing this up. Unless Nutting has promised a material up-grade in payroll, I tend to favor starting all over.
Who do you consider core?
If there was a good pitching staff I would have no problem going into this season with the current team. Every position could be upgraded and depending on trade/FA opportunities I’d love to see some upgrades. The lineup is not the reason I lean towards starting over, but this lineup had no chance to cover for a weak staff.
I guess my definition of core is different. Core are building pieces. This is a rebuild, whether Nutting wants to admit it or not. Farm system lacks talent; we have little pitching and somehow we have to get some pieces. Reclamation projects (which I see coming on the mound) are band aids, not long term solutions. Taillon I don't classify as core. He has injury after injury and cannot be counted on sadly moving forward. The rest of our pitchers are fours or fives. The bullpen is worse. We don't have a catcher; Bell won't be here in two years; Polanco is an injury waiting to happen and isn't a core player ... Marte is destined to be dealt to cut payroll and get much needed influx of talent ...
Core to me is Reynolds and Newman ... maybe Frazier.
Good News: Cherington has drafted well in Boston bringing a lot of young talent to the Red Sox who shined last year after his departure
Good News: Coonelly is gone! And Williams does not seem like a guy who will mess daily with his GM's strategies
Good News?: We'll get the right manager?
I'm going out on a limb here as I haven't seen it reported anywhere, but I have a feeling that NH has still been included in the process of who might replace him. His history with Cherington would serve me to believe that he was also NH's guy. And while we have a consulting firm and everyone else who was involved (and he obviously didn't interview his potential replacements), I think NH's opinion was included at some level in the decision.
Personally I see this as a positive as it might help maintain some continuity within the organization. And to me lack of continuity is the biggest potential problem when an organization goes through such a major shake-up at the top. That said, I think we'll see Cherington be more aggressive than Neal (hard not to be) and he's going to put some of his people in critical spots (bye, bye Kyle Stark).
I am also in what seems to be a huge minority who thinks that the MLB group is just not that bad. We have some really good pieces to build around on offensive. But we need some pitching, both SP and BP, really bad. And we need some of the current pitchers to take a step forward (we were awfully good in May before Taillon went down). But with the right additions, I think we can be much more competitive than most of the voices I'm hearing.
Good News: Coonelly is gone! I honestly think this is huge!
I don't think the core is bad at all. In another organization it might make sense to build around. But what the Pirates lack will be very expensive. That means they will plug holes rather than build.
I guess it depends on our goals: the team can possibly stay in a WC race next year but would have no real prospect of winning anything. Or plan for a bigger future by blowing this up. Unless Nutting has promised a material up-grade in payroll, I tend to favor starting all over.
Who do you consider core?
If there was a good pitching staff I would have no problem going into this season with the current team. Every position could be upgraded and depending on trade/FA opportunities I’d love to see some upgrades. The lineup is not the reason I lean towards starting over, but this lineup had no chance to cover for a weak staff.
I guess my definition of core is different. Core are building pieces. This is a rebuild, whether Nutting wants to admit it or not. Farm system lacks talent; we have little pitching and somehow we have to get some pieces. Reclamation projects (which I see coming on the mound) are band aids, not long term solutions. Taillon I don't classify as core. He has injury after injury and cannot be counted on sadly moving forward. The rest of our pitchers are fours or fives. The bullpen is worse. We don't have a catcher; Bell won't be here in two years; Polanco is an injury waiting to happen and isn't a core player ... Marte is destined to be dealt to cut payroll and get much needed influx of talent ...
Core to me is Reynolds and Newman ... maybe Frazier.
-
ArnoldRothstein
Sources: Ben Cherington has accepted Pirates’ GM job
What seems to have happened here? If Nutting agreed to give Cherington more money, then did he refuse to give that money to Huntington? Did Nutting decide that tanking for a few years is necessary, and Huntington refused to do that?
It seems that the 2007 plan was to become a player development juggernaut, and that was undermined by rules that restricted amateur spending, as well as the team being ordinary at developing amateur players they signed. Does it seem like this is news to them?
Nutting apparently started inquiring around the league toward the end of the year, so I'm wondering if that's the first he's heard of the bust-and-boom cycle? I think that's an interesting question, because after taking control of the team in 2007 i think they've projected him as an informed owner rather than a fan who happens to own the team. Is he really so far out of the loop?
It seems that the 2007 plan was to become a player development juggernaut, and that was undermined by rules that restricted amateur spending, as well as the team being ordinary at developing amateur players they signed. Does it seem like this is news to them?
Nutting apparently started inquiring around the league toward the end of the year, so I'm wondering if that's the first he's heard of the bust-and-boom cycle? I think that's an interesting question, because after taking control of the team in 2007 i think they've projected him as an informed owner rather than a fan who happens to own the team. Is he really so far out of the loop?