Welp, if there was ever an embarrassing moment for the entire FO of the Pirates surely if was yesterday when the Jays and Astro's announced a TRADE involving Frankie. This is not to be confused with the penny pinching purely business move the Pirates pulled exactly one year earlier.
The net deal: the Jays acquired two top 20 (top 10??) prospects FROM THE Pirates plus Liriano and give up a failed pitcher not worth even one of the prospects, one year later they trade Frankie and receive back 1 more top 10 prospect and a ML outfielder.
It sounds impossible that the Jays could acquire prospects on both ends of the Liriano deal without giving anything up, and it is impossible in the baseball world, but not in the business world of the Pirates.
For those that have maintained Bob's innocence, I think the book can now be closed : Pure salary dump.
Just think, the Jays were able to acquire OF help with Frankie! Instead we gave up an OF prospect.
Worse than the A-Ram give away, because the Pirates were truly broke and HAD to deal. This was just greed from a very wealthy man.
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Edit
I want to reiterate: I'm not upset about a bad trade. I'm pointing out the obvious truth - there was no trade. There was some value in Liriano. The truth has exposed a (another) bald face lie. I hate being lied to.
Closing the book on Liriano - complete Embarrassment
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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johnfluharty
Closing the book on Liriano - complete Embarrassment
Nutting was involved in the Aram 'trade' as well- McClatchy went to him to get help with the massive debt he had been piling up. The details of that situation were never public, but it was right around then that Nutting started acquiring more and more of the team.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Closing the book on Liriano - complete Embarrassment
I always viewed McClatchy as well-intentioned but probably trusted in the opinions of the wrong people.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Closing the book on Liriano - complete Embarrassment
Ramirez trade was way worse. The Pirates traded away a border line Hall of Famer for players who never panned out. Liriano is not in the same category as Ramirez.
There is still time for Hutchison to make the majors again and give the Pirates some innings. So, the book is not closed...yet. Who knows?
Until R. McGuire and/or H. Ramirez make it, this was not a bad trade by the Pirates. I would do it again to get rid of a bad player with a bad attitude with a $13 million price tag. Fans are ranking R. McGuire and H. Ramirez high, not the Pirates.
Every pitcher in the Pirates rotation now has been better than Liriano's 5.88 ERA.
There is still time for Hutchison to make the majors again and give the Pirates some innings. So, the book is not closed...yet. Who knows?
Until R. McGuire and/or H. Ramirez make it, this was not a bad trade by the Pirates. I would do it again to get rid of a bad player with a bad attitude with a $13 million price tag. Fans are ranking R. McGuire and H. Ramirez high, not the Pirates.
Every pitcher in the Pirates rotation now has been better than Liriano's 5.88 ERA.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Closing the book on Liriano - complete Embarrassment
515A525E5B5A410402754C545D5A5A1B565A350 wrote: Ramirez trade was way worse. The Pirates traded away a border line Hall of Famer for players who never panned out. Liriano is not in the same category as Ramirez.
There is still time for Hutchison to make the majors again and give the Pirates some innings. So, the book is not closed...yet. Who knows?
Until R. McGuire and/or H. Ramirez make it, this was not a bad trade by the Pirates. I would do it again to get rid of a bad player with a bad attitude with a $13 million price tag. Fans are ranking R. McGuire and H. Ramirez high, not the Pirates.
Every pitcher in the Pirates rotation now has been better than Liriano's 5.88 ERA.
This is not an attack on you personally, I truly enjoy all prospectives including yours, but after the trade yesterday this is simply insane. I don't think Nutting himself would any longer try to defend that pile of Horse manure.
And ARam HAD to be dumped. Of course he was a far better talent. But debt ratios forced the Pirates hand. Greed forced the Liriano trade. But In any case, ARam is not meant to deflect from the Liriano BS. The Pirates could have moved Liriano and ACQUIRED talent. Come on!
There is still time for Hutchison to make the majors again and give the Pirates some innings. So, the book is not closed...yet. Who knows?
Until R. McGuire and/or H. Ramirez make it, this was not a bad trade by the Pirates. I would do it again to get rid of a bad player with a bad attitude with a $13 million price tag. Fans are ranking R. McGuire and H. Ramirez high, not the Pirates.
Every pitcher in the Pirates rotation now has been better than Liriano's 5.88 ERA.
This is not an attack on you personally, I truly enjoy all prospectives including yours, but after the trade yesterday this is simply insane. I don't think Nutting himself would any longer try to defend that pile of Horse manure.
And ARam HAD to be dumped. Of course he was a far better talent. But debt ratios forced the Pirates hand. Greed forced the Liriano trade. But In any case, ARam is not meant to deflect from the Liriano BS. The Pirates could have moved Liriano and ACQUIRED talent. Come on!
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Closing the book on Liriano - complete Embarrassment
Two different situations:
Bad pitcher at $4.5 million or a bad pitcher at $17.5 million.
Do you think the Blue Jays would have got the same return last year? There is no way. None. Huntington has been very good at making trades, the Blue Jays were the only team that was willing to try Liriano at that salary.
Bad pitcher at $4.5 million or a bad pitcher at $17.5 million.
Do you think the Blue Jays would have got the same return last year? There is no way. None. Huntington has been very good at making trades, the Blue Jays were the only team that was willing to try Liriano at that salary.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Closing the book on Liriano - complete Embarrassment
6C676F6366677C393F487169606767266B67080 wrote: Two different situations:
Bad pitcher at $4.5 million or a bad pitcher at $17.5 million.
Do you think the Blue Jays would have got the same return last year? There is no way. None. Huntington has been very good at making trades, the Blue Jays were the only team that was willing to try Liriano at that salary.
Oh, I see. Well how about this old baseball trick - the Pirates eat part of the contract.
So, I rather the Pirates allocated the wasted $4.5M plus another $4.5M (not that it would take nearly that amount)and keep two prospects and ACQUIRE a top pick 10 prospect and an OFer (think the Pirates could use a warm body that can catch a ball in the OF?) from the Jays or the Astros or anyone else.
I dont see the "Pirate Plan" adopted by any other team this year.
Bad pitcher at $4.5 million or a bad pitcher at $17.5 million.
Do you think the Blue Jays would have got the same return last year? There is no way. None. Huntington has been very good at making trades, the Blue Jays were the only team that was willing to try Liriano at that salary.
Oh, I see. Well how about this old baseball trick - the Pirates eat part of the contract.
So, I rather the Pirates allocated the wasted $4.5M plus another $4.5M (not that it would take nearly that amount)and keep two prospects and ACQUIRE a top pick 10 prospect and an OFer (think the Pirates could use a warm body that can catch a ball in the OF?) from the Jays or the Astros or anyone else.
I dont see the "Pirate Plan" adopted by any other team this year.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Closing the book on Liriano - complete Embarrassment
I'm confident that if they wanted to be rid of Liriano that badly for some behind-the-scenes reason they could have just waived him and someone would have picked him up.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Closing the book on Liriano - complete Embarrassment
616670787661262A53747E727A7F3D707C7E130 wrote: Two different situations:
Bad pitcher at $4.5 million or a bad pitcher at $17.5 million.
Do you think the Blue Jays would have got the same return last year? There is no way. None. Huntington has been very good at making trades, the Blue Jays were the only team that was willing to try Liriano at that salary.
Oh, I see. Well how about this old baseball trick - the Pirates eat part of the contract.
So, I rather the Pirates allocated the wasted $4.5M plus another $4.5M (not that it would take nearly that amount)and keep two prospects and ACQUIRE a top pick 10 prospect and an OFer (think the Pirates could use a warm body that can catch a ball in the OF?) from the Jays or the Astros or anyone else.
I dont see the "Pirate Plan" adopted by any other team this year.
They didn't have to eat the salary if they gave up two non-prospects too. And they did receive a pitcher in return. Now, the Blue Jays have to release those guys, not the Pirates.
I also don't think that is how the trade went down. If the Blue Jays wanted both prospects for Hutchison, they had to take Liriano too.
Sorry, I didn't mind this trade at all. Liriano was done, way over paid. I don't think they would have added Nova, Freese, and Cervelli if Liriano was still around. I would rather have those three 9and Hutchison) than Liriano, McGuire, and Ramirez.
Bad pitcher at $4.5 million or a bad pitcher at $17.5 million.
Do you think the Blue Jays would have got the same return last year? There is no way. None. Huntington has been very good at making trades, the Blue Jays were the only team that was willing to try Liriano at that salary.
Oh, I see. Well how about this old baseball trick - the Pirates eat part of the contract.
So, I rather the Pirates allocated the wasted $4.5M plus another $4.5M (not that it would take nearly that amount)and keep two prospects and ACQUIRE a top pick 10 prospect and an OFer (think the Pirates could use a warm body that can catch a ball in the OF?) from the Jays or the Astros or anyone else.
I dont see the "Pirate Plan" adopted by any other team this year.
They didn't have to eat the salary if they gave up two non-prospects too. And they did receive a pitcher in return. Now, the Blue Jays have to release those guys, not the Pirates.
I also don't think that is how the trade went down. If the Blue Jays wanted both prospects for Hutchison, they had to take Liriano too.
Sorry, I didn't mind this trade at all. Liriano was done, way over paid. I don't think they would have added Nova, Freese, and Cervelli if Liriano was still around. I would rather have those three 9and Hutchison) than Liriano, McGuire, and Ramirez.
Closing the book on Liriano - complete Embarrassment
59525A565352490C0A7D445C555252135E523D0 wrote: Two different situations:
Bad pitcher at $4.5 million or a bad pitcher at $17.5 million.
Do you think the Blue Jays would have got the same return last year? There is no way. None. Huntington has been very good at making trades, the Blue Jays were the only team that was willing to try Liriano at that salary.
Oh, I see. Well how about this old baseball trick - the Pirates eat part of the contract.
So, I rather the Pirates allocated the wasted $4.5M plus another $4.5M (not that it would take nearly that amount)and keep two prospects and ACQUIRE a top pick 10 prospect and an OFer (think the Pirates could use a warm body that can catch a ball in the OF?) from the Jays or the Astros or anyone else.
I dont see the "Pirate Plan" adopted by any other team this year.
They didn't have to eat the salary if they gave up two non-prospects too. And they did receive a pitcher in return. Now, the Blue Jays have to release those guys, not the Pirates.
I also don't think that is how the trade went down. If the Blue Jays wanted both prospects for Hutchison, they had to take Liriano too.
Sorry, I didn't mind this trade at all. Liriano was done, way over paid. I don't think they would have added Nova, Freese, and Cervelli if Liriano was still around. I would rather have those three 9and Hutchison) than Liriano, McGuire, and Ramirez.
Nova I'll give you, but they already HAD Freese and Cervelli. This is why this is so frustrating, to me at least. We're told that dumping Liriano gave "financial flexibility" to sign a guy like Freese. Well, Freese was already on the team. So, essentially, what they're saying is...they could have EITHER a back-up third baseman, OR a fringe starting pitcher who once was quite good. But, NOT BOTH. This is the key. Sorry, but your organization is in a sad state of affairs when you can't afford both of those contracts. Now, whether or not a team SHOULD pay both of those contracts, well, that's a different debate for a different day. But, that's not what was sold to the fans. What was sold to the fans was that the Pirates couldn't have resigned David Freese if they hadn't dumped Liriano's contract.
The average fan rightly believes that "spending when the time is right," and "adding correct pieces at the correct time," or whatever other flavor of garbage this FO is spewing out on any given day means, you know, actually ADDING to the team, not resigning guys who were already here in the first place, and not extending guys like Marte and Polanco. The CBA which the owners agreed to (and last I checked this includes Nutting) agrees to pay players more money based on service time. 0-3, the team sets your salary, 4-6 you're in arbitration. After that, you're an FA. Nutting agreed to this. Saying the team increased payroll because Marte's salary increased is splitting hairs. 29 other teams write that up as the cost of doing business. But your PBC? Nope. That's company speak for, "See! We upped payroll! We're not cheap!"
Bad pitcher at $4.5 million or a bad pitcher at $17.5 million.
Do you think the Blue Jays would have got the same return last year? There is no way. None. Huntington has been very good at making trades, the Blue Jays were the only team that was willing to try Liriano at that salary.
Oh, I see. Well how about this old baseball trick - the Pirates eat part of the contract.
So, I rather the Pirates allocated the wasted $4.5M plus another $4.5M (not that it would take nearly that amount)and keep two prospects and ACQUIRE a top pick 10 prospect and an OFer (think the Pirates could use a warm body that can catch a ball in the OF?) from the Jays or the Astros or anyone else.
I dont see the "Pirate Plan" adopted by any other team this year.
They didn't have to eat the salary if they gave up two non-prospects too. And they did receive a pitcher in return. Now, the Blue Jays have to release those guys, not the Pirates.
I also don't think that is how the trade went down. If the Blue Jays wanted both prospects for Hutchison, they had to take Liriano too.
Sorry, I didn't mind this trade at all. Liriano was done, way over paid. I don't think they would have added Nova, Freese, and Cervelli if Liriano was still around. I would rather have those three 9and Hutchison) than Liriano, McGuire, and Ramirez.
Nova I'll give you, but they already HAD Freese and Cervelli. This is why this is so frustrating, to me at least. We're told that dumping Liriano gave "financial flexibility" to sign a guy like Freese. Well, Freese was already on the team. So, essentially, what they're saying is...they could have EITHER a back-up third baseman, OR a fringe starting pitcher who once was quite good. But, NOT BOTH. This is the key. Sorry, but your organization is in a sad state of affairs when you can't afford both of those contracts. Now, whether or not a team SHOULD pay both of those contracts, well, that's a different debate for a different day. But, that's not what was sold to the fans. What was sold to the fans was that the Pirates couldn't have resigned David Freese if they hadn't dumped Liriano's contract.
The average fan rightly believes that "spending when the time is right," and "adding correct pieces at the correct time," or whatever other flavor of garbage this FO is spewing out on any given day means, you know, actually ADDING to the team, not resigning guys who were already here in the first place, and not extending guys like Marte and Polanco. The CBA which the owners agreed to (and last I checked this includes Nutting) agrees to pay players more money based on service time. 0-3, the team sets your salary, 4-6 you're in arbitration. After that, you're an FA. Nutting agreed to this. Saying the team increased payroll because Marte's salary increased is splitting hairs. 29 other teams write that up as the cost of doing business. But your PBC? Nope. That's company speak for, "See! We upped payroll! We're not cheap!"