I agree with you, Bobster. Last night was an exception. He was there, two guys on base, Rivero should have been used. No excuse. Overall, I think Rivero has been being used in tough situations. Now, people want Rivero to close no matter what. So which is it?
I have leaned your way, Bobster, over the years. Bring in the best relief pitcher in tougher situations (as long as it is the 7th, 8th+ inning).
Tuesday's and Wednesday's games were different. But people thought Rivero was used wrong in both situations. That's what I don't get?
Tuesday: Rivero came in the 7th to get out of a jam. Accomplished and stayed in for the 8th. Watson blew the game in the 9th.
Wednesday: Watson came in to get out of a jam and close out the game. Rivero didn't pitch yet.
In both cases, people wanted Rivero to come in to close the game. But on Tuesday he was needed to get to that situation. The 7th was when the game was on the line too.
Will Showalter/Britton fiasco change closer philosophy?
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Will Showalter/Britton fiasco change closer philosophy?
060D05090C0D165355221B030A0D0D4C010D620 wrote: I agree with you, Bobster. Last night was an exception. He was there, two guys on base, Rivero should have been used. No excuse. Overall, I think Rivero has been being used in tough situations. Now, people want Rivero to close no matter what. So which is it?
I have leaned your way, Bobster, over the years. Bring in the best relief pitcher in tougher situations (as long as it is the 7th, 8th+ inning).
Tuesday's and Wednesday's games were different. But people thought Rivero was used wrong in both situations. That's what I don't get?
Tuesday: Rivero came in the 7th to get out of a jam. Accomplished and stayed in for the 8th. Watson blew the game in the 9th.
Wednesday: Watson came in to get out of a jam and close out the game. Rivero didn't pitch yet.
In both cases, people wanted Rivero to come in to close the game. But on Tuesday he was needed to get to that situation. The 7th was when the game was on the line too.
basically it because Hurdle didn't manage to win in either game. As others have said Hurdle managed by formula even though the formula hasn't been working. A large part of the problem is that the bullpen doesn't have enough reliable pitchers.
Maybe Searage isn't that good of a coach anymore, maybe the Pirates aren't doing a good job of getting enough talented pitchers to get the job done.
For whatever reason the results are showing that the Bucs don't have a good pitching staff, they have a poor defense and an offense that is not great. Yet they are on the tenth year of the plan to bring in a year in and year out contender on a limited budget. This year's attendance is going to drop from last year's as the fans get discouraged by the team's floundering around.
I have leaned your way, Bobster, over the years. Bring in the best relief pitcher in tougher situations (as long as it is the 7th, 8th+ inning).
Tuesday's and Wednesday's games were different. But people thought Rivero was used wrong in both situations. That's what I don't get?
Tuesday: Rivero came in the 7th to get out of a jam. Accomplished and stayed in for the 8th. Watson blew the game in the 9th.
Wednesday: Watson came in to get out of a jam and close out the game. Rivero didn't pitch yet.
In both cases, people wanted Rivero to come in to close the game. But on Tuesday he was needed to get to that situation. The 7th was when the game was on the line too.
basically it because Hurdle didn't manage to win in either game. As others have said Hurdle managed by formula even though the formula hasn't been working. A large part of the problem is that the bullpen doesn't have enough reliable pitchers.
Maybe Searage isn't that good of a coach anymore, maybe the Pirates aren't doing a good job of getting enough talented pitchers to get the job done.
For whatever reason the results are showing that the Bucs don't have a good pitching staff, they have a poor defense and an offense that is not great. Yet they are on the tenth year of the plan to bring in a year in and year out contender on a limited budget. This year's attendance is going to drop from last year's as the fans get discouraged by the team's floundering around.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Will Showalter/Britton fiasco change closer philosophy?
That's my point.
They were two different situations. Which one was right?
Bringing in Rivero early on Tuesday or saving him for the 9th? He was brought into the game in the higher leverage situation. But that was the wrong move because he wasn't saved for the 9th?
They were two different situations. Which one was right?
Bringing in Rivero early on Tuesday or saving him for the 9th? He was brought into the game in the higher leverage situation. But that was the wrong move because he wasn't saved for the 9th?
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Will Showalter/Britton fiasco change closer philosophy?
3E353D3134352E6B6D1A233B3235357439355A0 wrote: That's my point.
They were two different situations. Which one was right?
Bringing in Rivero early on Tuesday or saving him for the 9th? He was brought into the game in the higher leverage situation. But that was the wrong move because he wasn't saved for the 9th?
I like using Rivero instead of saving him until the 9th.
The issue is that Watson isn't getting it done. I guess I'd use Nicaso in Watson's place until/if he gets it turned around. In a way I understand putting Watson there last night to give him a chance to right himself but at this point . . .
They were two different situations. Which one was right?
Bringing in Rivero early on Tuesday or saving him for the 9th? He was brought into the game in the higher leverage situation. But that was the wrong move because he wasn't saved for the 9th?
I like using Rivero instead of saving him until the 9th.
The issue is that Watson isn't getting it done. I guess I'd use Nicaso in Watson's place until/if he gets it turned around. In a way I understand putting Watson there last night to give him a chance to right himself but at this point . . .
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johnfluharty
Will Showalter/Britton fiasco change closer philosophy?
Hurdle is very patient, often to a fault. It's time to move Watson to lower leverage situations so he can work out his troubles.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Will Showalter/Britton fiasco change closer philosophy?
Watson is already in a lower leverage situation. He comes in with no one on base.
I would hate to take Rivero out of his current role. I think it is time to use Nicasio later or use pitchers based on match ups (like it always should be).
It is also time to bring up guys from the minors.
I would hate to take Rivero out of his current role. I think it is time to use Nicasio later or use pitchers based on match ups (like it always should be).
It is also time to bring up guys from the minors.
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johnfluharty
Will Showalter/Britton fiasco change closer philosophy?
Watson can pitch in games in which we are way behind or way ahead, or he can come in early in games when we have plenty of time to undo the harm he does. Those are lower leverage than being closer.
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Bobster21
Will Showalter/Britton fiasco change closer philosophy?
505B535F5A5B400503744D555C5B5B1A575B340 wrote: That's my point.
They were two different situations. Which one was right?
Bringing in Rivero early on Tuesday or saving him for the 9th? He was brought into the game in the higher leverage situation. But that was the wrong move because he wasn't saved for the 9th?
The complaints I saw were that Rivero had only thrown 15 pitches on Tuesday so it was not inconceivable that he could have started that 9th inning too.
They were two different situations. Which one was right?
Bringing in Rivero early on Tuesday or saving him for the 9th? He was brought into the game in the higher leverage situation. But that was the wrong move because he wasn't saved for the 9th?
The complaints I saw were that Rivero had only thrown 15 pitches on Tuesday so it was not inconceivable that he could have started that 9th inning too.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Will Showalter/Britton fiasco change closer philosophy?
I am curious how many people want to start Fluery over Murray tonight?
The people for Watson would vote for Murray. The people for Rivero would want Fluery. Right?
Maybe Fluery can be put in when a shot is coming, a high leverage situation?
The people for Watson would vote for Murray. The people for Rivero would want Fluery. Right?
Maybe Fluery can be put in when a shot is coming, a high leverage situation?
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Will Showalter/Britton fiasco change closer philosophy?
032E23323524337370410 wrote: That's my point.
They were two different situations. Which one was right?
Bringing in Rivero early on Tuesday or saving him for the 9th? He was brought into the game in the higher leverage situation. But that was the wrong move because he wasn't saved for the 9th?
The complaints I saw were that Rivero had only thrown 15 pitches on Tuesday so it was not inconceivable that he could have started that 9th inning too.
No, there were no complaints until Watson blew the game.
Even in Wednesday's thread, no one answered my question on what they would do until after the fact.
In my opinion, Rivero was used correctly on Tuesday and wrong on Wednesday.
They were two different situations. Which one was right?
Bringing in Rivero early on Tuesday or saving him for the 9th? He was brought into the game in the higher leverage situation. But that was the wrong move because he wasn't saved for the 9th?
The complaints I saw were that Rivero had only thrown 15 pitches on Tuesday so it was not inconceivable that he could have started that 9th inning too.
No, there were no complaints until Watson blew the game.
Even in Wednesday's thread, no one answered my question on what they would do until after the fact.
In my opinion, Rivero was used correctly on Tuesday and wrong on Wednesday.