Two years later ...
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Two years later ...
Yeah, it's fine to me to try such experiments during the course of the season, but certainly not as a your initial plan. They decided to open the year winging it with an incomplete roster.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Two years later ...
They thought Niese would be better. They thought Nicasio/Vogelsong could pitch until Taillon was called up.
What hurt even more, in my opinion, was Cole's and Liriano's bad pitching.
They had that bad losing streak before the deadline too, which kind of sealed the season and made them soft sellers.
What hurt even more, in my opinion, was Cole's and Liriano's bad pitching.
They had that bad losing streak before the deadline too, which kind of sealed the season and made them soft sellers.
Two years later ...
262D25292C2D367375023B232A2D2D6C212D420 wrote: They thought Niese would be better. They thought Nicasio/Vogelsong could pitch until Taillon was called up.
What hurt even more, in my opinion, was Cole's and Liriano's bad pitching.
They had that bad losing streak before the deadline too, which kind of sealed the season and made them soft sellers.
What about Jeff Locke? You're forgetting him. What did they think Jeff Locke was going to do?
"They" clearly aren't very good at predicting performance, if that's really what "They" expected.
Bobster has been trying to show you that they were, in fact, largely just being cheap and trying to squeak into the playoffs without dropping $ to acquire a legit starter. Trying to field a team that's just good enough to get there, but not SO GOOD to cost another 15-20 million in payroll.
I'm not even going that route, really. Clearly they're cheap and trying to save money. I think that offseason, NH proved he just doesn't know what he's doing with talent evaluation. I don't believe with record attendance etc.. that Nutting made him cheap out like he did. Don't buy it. NH was being cocky expecting everything to be rainbows and unicorns.. and he blew it.
You're going with what? " unlucky?"
What hurt even more, in my opinion, was Cole's and Liriano's bad pitching.
They had that bad losing streak before the deadline too, which kind of sealed the season and made them soft sellers.
What about Jeff Locke? You're forgetting him. What did they think Jeff Locke was going to do?
"They" clearly aren't very good at predicting performance, if that's really what "They" expected.
Bobster has been trying to show you that they were, in fact, largely just being cheap and trying to squeak into the playoffs without dropping $ to acquire a legit starter. Trying to field a team that's just good enough to get there, but not SO GOOD to cost another 15-20 million in payroll.
I'm not even going that route, really. Clearly they're cheap and trying to save money. I think that offseason, NH proved he just doesn't know what he's doing with talent evaluation. I don't believe with record attendance etc.. that Nutting made him cheap out like he did. Don't buy it. NH was being cocky expecting everything to be rainbows and unicorns.. and he blew it.
You're going with what? " unlucky?"
Two years later ...
7A737B6A641E0 wrote: They thought Niese would be better. They thought Nicasio/Vogelsong could pitch until Taillon was called up.
What hurt even more, in my opinion, was Cole's and Liriano's bad pitching.
They had that bad losing streak before the deadline too, which kind of sealed the season and made them soft sellers.
What about Jeff Locke? You're forgetting him. What did they think Jeff Locke was going to do?
"They" clearly aren't very good at predicting performance, if that's really what "They" expected.
Bobster has been trying to show you that they were, in fact, largely just being cheap and trying to squeak into the playoffs without dropping $ to acquire a legit starter. Trying to field a team that's just good enough to get there, but not GOOD to cost another 15-20 million in payroll.
I'm not even going that route. I just think they don't know what they're doing with talent evaluation and have demonstrated it over and over and over.
You're going with what? " unlucky?"
Haven't you noticed what Dog's new thing is? He's now admitting all of Huntington's poor drafting and development and bad player evaluation over and over and somehow saying:
"You're right. He just keeps making awful move after awful move. But a few years ago, he accidentally made a few decent moves. He can do it again...he just needs a new strategy."
Oh, that makes sense. Yes, he just needs a new, unknown strategy that will magically make this team good.
The whole thing is laughable. It's now gotten to where he's saying NH is terrible, but he'll be better...because he'll just be better!
What hurt even more, in my opinion, was Cole's and Liriano's bad pitching.
They had that bad losing streak before the deadline too, which kind of sealed the season and made them soft sellers.
What about Jeff Locke? You're forgetting him. What did they think Jeff Locke was going to do?
"They" clearly aren't very good at predicting performance, if that's really what "They" expected.
Bobster has been trying to show you that they were, in fact, largely just being cheap and trying to squeak into the playoffs without dropping $ to acquire a legit starter. Trying to field a team that's just good enough to get there, but not GOOD to cost another 15-20 million in payroll.
I'm not even going that route. I just think they don't know what they're doing with talent evaluation and have demonstrated it over and over and over.
You're going with what? " unlucky?"
Haven't you noticed what Dog's new thing is? He's now admitting all of Huntington's poor drafting and development and bad player evaluation over and over and somehow saying:
"You're right. He just keeps making awful move after awful move. But a few years ago, he accidentally made a few decent moves. He can do it again...he just needs a new strategy."
Oh, that makes sense. Yes, he just needs a new, unknown strategy that will magically make this team good.
The whole thing is laughable. It's now gotten to where he's saying NH is terrible, but he'll be better...because he'll just be better!
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Two years later ...
I have said over and over that Huntington missed out on talent. The players that were brought in or became new starters were not as good as the 2015 team. Harrison was not better than Walker. Jaso was not better than Alvarez. Neise was not better than Burnett.
Other things happened too. Three of the teams best players were pretty bad or not close to their norms or expectations.
Locke was on the 98 win team. He had 30 starts. I am sure they thought he could repeat that and have at least a good first half like he usually did. Taillon would need a spot. He would replace the weakest pitcher. Locke wasn't the problem. Cole and Liriano were bigger problems as expectations were higher for those two. Locke also got a $2.5 million raise.
Again, I didn't think money was the main reason. Talent evaluation was bad. I have said this over and over. Do you now agree with me? You don't think he "cheaped out" either? That's what I have been saying the whole time.
Other things happened too. Three of the teams best players were pretty bad or not close to their norms or expectations.
Locke was on the 98 win team. He had 30 starts. I am sure they thought he could repeat that and have at least a good first half like he usually did. Taillon would need a spot. He would replace the weakest pitcher. Locke wasn't the problem. Cole and Liriano were bigger problems as expectations were higher for those two. Locke also got a $2.5 million raise.
Again, I didn't think money was the main reason. Talent evaluation was bad. I have said this over and over. Do you now agree with me? You don't think he "cheaped out" either? That's what I have been saying the whole time.
Two years later ...
I don't necessarily think that NH was given a directive by scrooge McNutting that particular offseason to not bump payroll another 10-15 on a starting pitcher, no. I don't know for sure, obviously.
I do believe he was pretty clearly given such a directive after attendance tanked last season.
NH blew it big time. Charlie Morton is pitching for the Stros tonight, making it all the more embarrassing that we released him and replaced him with Vogelsong. Of course I supported dumping Morton for a better starter. The move was fine. And I sat around and refreshed ML trade rumors just waiting to hear what he had lined up. Nothing. Just dumped him
He continues to blow it and now with attendance tanking, his meager payroll resources are being reduced by scrooge.
It's self inflected by NH
I do believe he was pretty clearly given such a directive after attendance tanked last season.
NH blew it big time. Charlie Morton is pitching for the Stros tonight, making it all the more embarrassing that we released him and replaced him with Vogelsong. Of course I supported dumping Morton for a better starter. The move was fine. And I sat around and refreshed ML trade rumors just waiting to hear what he had lined up. Nothing. Just dumped him
He continues to blow it and now with attendance tanking, his meager payroll resources are being reduced by scrooge.
It's self inflected by NH
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DemDog
Two years later ...
414840515F250 wrote: I don't necessarily think that NH was given a directive by scrooge McNutting that particular offseason to not bump payroll another 10-15 on a starting pitcher, no. I don't know for sure, obviously.
I do believe he was pretty clearly given such a directive after attendance tanked last season.
NH blew it big time. Charlie Morton is pitching for the Stros tonight, making it all the more embarrassing that we released him and replaced him with Vogelsong. Of course I supported dumping Morton for a better starter. The move was fine. And I sat around and refreshed ML trade rumors just waiting to hear what he had lined up. Nothing. Just dumped him
He continues to blow it and now with attendance tanking, his meager payroll resources are being reduced by scrooge.
It's self inflected by NH
Scrooge McNutting! Oooooh I like that! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I do believe he was pretty clearly given such a directive after attendance tanked last season.
NH blew it big time. Charlie Morton is pitching for the Stros tonight, making it all the more embarrassing that we released him and replaced him with Vogelsong. Of course I supported dumping Morton for a better starter. The move was fine. And I sat around and refreshed ML trade rumors just waiting to hear what he had lined up. Nothing. Just dumped him
He continues to blow it and now with attendance tanking, his meager payroll resources are being reduced by scrooge.
It's self inflected by NH
Scrooge McNutting! Oooooh I like that! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Two years later ...
616860717F050 wrote: I don't necessarily think that NH was given a directive by scrooge McNutting that particular offseason to not bump payroll another 10-15 on a starting pitcher, no. I don't know for sure, obviously.
I do believe he was pretty clearly given such a directive after attendance tanked last season.
NH blew it big time. Charlie Morton is pitching for the Stros tonight, making it all the more embarrassing that we released him and replaced him with Vogelsong. Of course I supported dumping Morton for a better starter. The move was fine. And I sat around and refreshed ML trade rumors just waiting to hear what he had lined up. Nothing. Just dumped him
He continues to blow it and now with attendance tanking, his meager payroll resources are being reduced by scrooge.
It's self inflected by NH
the self-inflicted part is why I wouldn't have minded at all if NH was fired.
I do believe he was pretty clearly given such a directive after attendance tanked last season.
NH blew it big time. Charlie Morton is pitching for the Stros tonight, making it all the more embarrassing that we released him and replaced him with Vogelsong. Of course I supported dumping Morton for a better starter. The move was fine. And I sat around and refreshed ML trade rumors just waiting to hear what he had lined up. Nothing. Just dumped him
He continues to blow it and now with attendance tanking, his meager payroll resources are being reduced by scrooge.
It's self inflected by NH
the self-inflicted part is why I wouldn't have minded at all if NH was fired.
Two years later ...
707B737F7A7B602523546D757C7B7B3A777B140 wrote: They thought Niese would be better. They thought Nicasio/Vogelsong could pitch until Taillon was called up.
What hurt even more, in my opinion, was Cole's and Liriano's bad pitching.
They had that bad losing streak before the deadline too, which kind of sealed the season and made them soft sellers.
Niese was one of those loser deals by NH. I'm stunned that was the best he could get for Walker. And then he turns around and gets even worse - Bastardo back for a failed Niese. The plan was horrid.
What hurt even more, in my opinion, was Cole's and Liriano's bad pitching.
They had that bad losing streak before the deadline too, which kind of sealed the season and made them soft sellers.
Niese was one of those loser deals by NH. I'm stunned that was the best he could get for Walker. And then he turns around and gets even worse - Bastardo back for a failed Niese. The plan was horrid.
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Bobster21
Two years later ...
3323221503030F600 wrote: They thought Niese would be better. They thought Nicasio/Vogelsong could pitch until Taillon was called up.
What hurt even more, in my opinion, was Cole's and Liriano's bad pitching.
They had that bad losing streak before the deadline too, which kind of sealed the season and made them soft sellers.
Niese was one of those loser deals by NH. I'm stunned that was the best he could get for Walker. And then he turns around and gets even worse - Bastardo back for a failed Niese. The plan was horrid.
Follow the money. Niese was the best they thought they could get for the kind of money they were paying Walker. Consistent with how the org is run, they weren't going to take on additional salary. Similarly, Alvarez got 5.7 mil in his last season as a Pirate. He was non tendered because they didn't want to pay him more in arbitration since he couldn't catch a ball and hit for a low average with mucho Ks. So the team that needed an upgrade over a 1Bman who could do nothing but hit HRs settled for a less expensive catcher with little power who would have to learn to pay 1B on the job. Was this the best candidate for the vacant 1B job or just the cheapest? The 98 win team had 3 good starters in Cole, Liriano and Burnett/Napp. Morton and Locke were the weak links. Burnett retired and they chose not to increase payroll by retaining Happ. Niese was the replacement for Burnett/Happ. His history showed no chance to be as effective but his salary was in line with what they had paid Walker. Morton was thankfully let go. He had been getting 8 mil to be ineffective. Instead of increasing an already low payroll or at least finding someone worth that amount, they decided to replace him with 38 year old, struggling Vogelsong and his 2 mil salary. To no one's surprise, Vogelsong was ineffective. But they saved money. And despite Locke's chronic ineffectiveness, he was kept at 3 mil. Hard to find a good replacement for that amount. So Locke had to stay. Follow the money. NH's personnel moves are dictated by the bottom line.
What hurt even more, in my opinion, was Cole's and Liriano's bad pitching.
They had that bad losing streak before the deadline too, which kind of sealed the season and made them soft sellers.
Niese was one of those loser deals by NH. I'm stunned that was the best he could get for Walker. And then he turns around and gets even worse - Bastardo back for a failed Niese. The plan was horrid.
Follow the money. Niese was the best they thought they could get for the kind of money they were paying Walker. Consistent with how the org is run, they weren't going to take on additional salary. Similarly, Alvarez got 5.7 mil in his last season as a Pirate. He was non tendered because they didn't want to pay him more in arbitration since he couldn't catch a ball and hit for a low average with mucho Ks. So the team that needed an upgrade over a 1Bman who could do nothing but hit HRs settled for a less expensive catcher with little power who would have to learn to pay 1B on the job. Was this the best candidate for the vacant 1B job or just the cheapest? The 98 win team had 3 good starters in Cole, Liriano and Burnett/Napp. Morton and Locke were the weak links. Burnett retired and they chose not to increase payroll by retaining Happ. Niese was the replacement for Burnett/Happ. His history showed no chance to be as effective but his salary was in line with what they had paid Walker. Morton was thankfully let go. He had been getting 8 mil to be ineffective. Instead of increasing an already low payroll or at least finding someone worth that amount, they decided to replace him with 38 year old, struggling Vogelsong and his 2 mil salary. To no one's surprise, Vogelsong was ineffective. But they saved money. And despite Locke's chronic ineffectiveness, he was kept at 3 mil. Hard to find a good replacement for that amount. So Locke had to stay. Follow the money. NH's personnel moves are dictated by the bottom line.