242F272B2E2F347177003921282F2F6E232F400 wrote: What do you get with your seniority as a season ticket holder?
I have a higher right to seat upgrades (which I exercised for this season's tickets), more "points" which I can convert into different events or merchandise (points are awarded on type of plan, seat location and years of seniority. There are some pretty good events that I get invited to (I had the opportunity to participate in a Q&A with Neal, Frank and Clint yesterday, but I had a conflict and missed it unfortunately; been treated to a road game by bus; etc).
Most important, I love the Pirates and baseball. (We had pen's ST, but dropped them to keep our Pirate tix because we couldn't afford to keep both any longer). So it's no small thing to walk away. It's why this mess makes me angry - these bozos are impacting a lot of people who love the game and team. No indication they love the fans back....
Sounds like some good perks. How is that not an indication of giving the fans some love? I go to a lot of games and aren't getting those options.
Why did it take you ten years (Nuting/Huntington tenure together) to realize this or drop your tickets? If these two never changed and showed no signs of changing, why continue to give them money? Especially, if you think all they want is your money and don't care about the fans or winning.
Don't want to put words in VA's mouth, but as someone who would be a season ticket holder if I lived in Pittsburgh, I'd say it's because we're sick of that stuff. It doesn't matter. What the fans want, why they cheer for the team, is one thing and one thing only. Ws. As in wins. And lots of them.
They can sugarcoat this facade all they want with fireworks, bobble heads, Bucaroos Ask the Bucs or whatever they call it, and more for dedicated ST holders like VA. But at the end of the day, that's all it is...sugarcoating. In fact, I'd almost take it as a slap in the face. I'll bet if you asked every season ticket holder if they would rather the team spend $10 million wining and dining them over the year, or reinvest that in the team, I'd bet the response would be unanimous...PUT IT IN THE TEAM!!!
By analogy, it's like working for a company for 40 years, and on your retirement, they give you a nice greeting card. No bonus. No all expense paid vacation saying, "Thanks for all you've done for us." Not even a gift card for a nice night out with your spouse. A greeting card. Nice. Gee, thanks.
I agree with you. I also don't buy season tickets. I also don't complain and still buy season tickets. I certainly went to less games this year, they lost a lot of my money.
I just don't get why people who hate the ownership, say all they do is pocket money, don't care about the fans, don't care about winning, don't want to win, see no future and yet, they keep buying the product. It boggles my mind.
Well, I get that, given what VA said about his son. Nothing can replace time spent with family. Even if it is watching this putrid product. Pirates ownership and FO should be ashamed of themselves.
It is also sad to me how people look for the negatives. This ownership built a team to stop the 15 years of losing. Yeah, they lost some five years as they built it up from scratch. No easy task at all. We all saw it. We saw the future and what was happening. People started to buy in. Attendance was rising in 2011, 2012 like never before. Three years in a row of making the playoffs. But that is all erased after two losing seasons. Why is that? Why do people think they can't turn it around again? Everyone else can repeat history, except the Pirates. The bad does not outweigh the good. It might soon if they don't start winning, but they are not at that point yet. It's a shame people didn't enjoy 2011-2015 and just focus on complaining about 2016 and 2017.
Well, I can only answer for myself. But, for me it was lost because of the following reasons, among others:
1. Following 2015, they refused to upgrade an obviously depleted rotation, other than by trading away their starting second baseman for a journeyman pitcher coming off a bad year.
2. They refused to upgrade their rotation this year.
3. They played half the year with two real outfielders on their active roster.
4. They seemingly have decided to replace Jung Ho Kang with two back-ups in David Freese and Sean Rodriguez.
5. There is no accountability for A) lackadaisical attitudes, B) consistently bad--no, atrocious--base running, and C) same as B, but in regards to mental errors like throwing to the wrong base.
6. They continue to try and sugarcoat what anyone with half a brain can see is a desperate situation.
7. The argument can be made that they got lucky. Now, I don't really think they did, but luck most certainly played a part. Martin was great in 13-14, Cervelli had a career year in 15. Burnett found magic when he was here. So did Liriano. So did Volquez. So did Happ. Am I saying they don't get credit for this? No. They resurrected these guys' careers. Good job. Hu-rah. But, hoping for four or five guys to have career years, and/or Jon Niese to suddenly pitch like an ace (which was how good Burnett was in 2015), is like hoping your teacher sees your Cup of Dirt science project and just gives you an A. Realistically, your teacher is going to see your Cup of Dirt, slap an F on there, and let you go home. (If you don't get that reference, check out Brian Regan on YouTube. Search for "Cup of Dirt.")
Strategies
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Strategies
4348404C4948531610675E464F4848094448270 wrote: What do you get with your seniority as a season ticket holder?
I have a higher right to seat upgrades (which I exercised for this season's tickets), more "points" which I can convert into different events or merchandise (points are awarded on type of plan, seat location and years of seniority. There are some pretty good events that I get invited to (I had the opportunity to participate in a Q&A with Neal, Frank and Clint yesterday, but I had a conflict and missed it unfortunately; been treated to a road game by bus; etc).
Most important, I love the Pirates and baseball. (We had pen's ST, but dropped them to keep our Pirate tix because we couldn't afford to keep both any longer). So it's no small thing to walk away. It's why this mess makes me angry - these bozos are impacting a lot of people who love the game and team. No indication they love the fans back....
Sounds like some good perks. How is that not an indication of giving the fans some love? I go to a lot of games and aren't getting those options.
Why did it take you ten years (Nuting/Huntington tenure together) to realize this or drop your tickets? If these two never changed and showed no signs of changing, why continue to give them money? Especially, if you think all they want is your money and don't care about the fans or winning.
Don't want to put words in VA's mouth, but as someone who would be a season ticket holder if I lived in Pittsburgh, I'd say it's because we're sick of that stuff. It doesn't matter. What the fans want, why they cheer for the team, is one thing and one thing only. Ws. As in wins. And lots of them.
They can sugarcoat this facade all they want with fireworks, bobble heads, Bucaroos Ask the Bucs or whatever they call it, and more for dedicated ST holders like VA. But at the end of the day, that's all it is...sugarcoating. In fact, I'd almost take it as a slap in the face. I'll bet if you asked every season ticket holder if they would rather the team spend $10 million wining and dining them over the year, or reinvest that in the team, I'd bet the response would be unanimous...PUT IT IN THE TEAM!!!
By analogy, it's like working for a company for 40 years, and on your retirement, they give you a nice greeting card. No bonus. No all expense paid vacation saying, "Thanks for all you've done for us." Not even a gift card for a nice night out with your spouse. A greeting card. Nice. Gee, thanks.
I agree with you. I also don't buy season tickets. I also don't complain and still buy season tickets. I certainly went to less games this year, they lost a lot of my money.
I just don't get why people who hate the ownership, say all they do is pocket money, don't care about the fans, don't care about winning, don't want to win, see no future and yet, they keep buying the product. It boggles my mind.
Because going to a baseball game can be fun. But it even more fun if the team is a pennant contender, even more fun when it is first place.
I have a higher right to seat upgrades (which I exercised for this season's tickets), more "points" which I can convert into different events or merchandise (points are awarded on type of plan, seat location and years of seniority. There are some pretty good events that I get invited to (I had the opportunity to participate in a Q&A with Neal, Frank and Clint yesterday, but I had a conflict and missed it unfortunately; been treated to a road game by bus; etc).
Most important, I love the Pirates and baseball. (We had pen's ST, but dropped them to keep our Pirate tix because we couldn't afford to keep both any longer). So it's no small thing to walk away. It's why this mess makes me angry - these bozos are impacting a lot of people who love the game and team. No indication they love the fans back....
Sounds like some good perks. How is that not an indication of giving the fans some love? I go to a lot of games and aren't getting those options.
Why did it take you ten years (Nuting/Huntington tenure together) to realize this or drop your tickets? If these two never changed and showed no signs of changing, why continue to give them money? Especially, if you think all they want is your money and don't care about the fans or winning.
Don't want to put words in VA's mouth, but as someone who would be a season ticket holder if I lived in Pittsburgh, I'd say it's because we're sick of that stuff. It doesn't matter. What the fans want, why they cheer for the team, is one thing and one thing only. Ws. As in wins. And lots of them.
They can sugarcoat this facade all they want with fireworks, bobble heads, Bucaroos Ask the Bucs or whatever they call it, and more for dedicated ST holders like VA. But at the end of the day, that's all it is...sugarcoating. In fact, I'd almost take it as a slap in the face. I'll bet if you asked every season ticket holder if they would rather the team spend $10 million wining and dining them over the year, or reinvest that in the team, I'd bet the response would be unanimous...PUT IT IN THE TEAM!!!
By analogy, it's like working for a company for 40 years, and on your retirement, they give you a nice greeting card. No bonus. No all expense paid vacation saying, "Thanks for all you've done for us." Not even a gift card for a nice night out with your spouse. A greeting card. Nice. Gee, thanks.
I agree with you. I also don't buy season tickets. I also don't complain and still buy season tickets. I certainly went to less games this year, they lost a lot of my money.
I just don't get why people who hate the ownership, say all they do is pocket money, don't care about the fans, don't care about winning, don't want to win, see no future and yet, they keep buying the product. It boggles my mind.
Because going to a baseball game can be fun. But it even more fun if the team is a pennant contender, even more fun when it is first place.
Strategies
Just be happy and stop complaining. We lost for 20 years, won for 3, and now we are back at the bottom of baseball.
Give it 3-5 more years and we may win again. Jeez.
Give it 3-5 more years and we may win again. Jeez.
-
rucker59@gmail.com
Strategies
646C6F584E6B4C432D0 wrote: What do you get with your seniority as a season ticket holder?
I have a higher right to seat upgrades (which I exercised for this season's tickets), more "points" which I can convert into different events or merchandise (points are awarded on type of plan, seat location and years of seniority. There are some pretty good events that I get invited to (I had the opportunity to participate in a Q&A with Neal, Frank and Clint yesterday, but I had a conflict and missed it unfortunately; been treated to a road game by bus; etc).
Most important, I love the Pirates and baseball. (We had pen's ST, but dropped them to keep our Pirate tix because we couldn't afford to keep both any longer). So it's no small thing to walk away. It's why this mess makes me angry - these bozos are impacting a lot of people who love the game and team. No indication they love the fans back....
Sounds like some good perks. How is that not an indication of giving the fans some love? I go to a lot of games and aren't getting those options.
Why did it take you ten years (Nuting/Huntington tenure together) to realize this or drop your tickets? If these two never changed and showed no signs of changing, why continue to give them money? Especially, if you think all they want is your money and don't care about the fans or winning.
Don't want to put words in VA's mouth, but as someone who would be a season ticket holder if I lived in Pittsburgh, I'd say it's because we're sick of that stuff. It doesn't matter. What the fans want, why they cheer for the team, is one thing and one thing only. Ws. As in wins. And lots of them.
They can sugarcoat this facade all they want with fireworks, bobble heads, Bucaroos Ask the Bucs or whatever they call it, and more for dedicated ST holders like VA. But at the end of the day, that's all it is...sugarcoating. In fact, I'd almost take it as a slap in the face. I'll bet if you asked every season ticket holder if they would rather the team spend $10 million wining and dining them over the year, or reinvest that in the team, I'd bet the response would be unanimous...PUT IT IN THE TEAM!!!
By analogy, it's like working for a company for 40 years, and on your retirement, they give you a nice greeting card. No bonus. No all expense paid vacation saying, "Thanks for all you've done for us." Not even a gift card for a nice night out with your spouse. A greeting card. Nice. Gee, thanks.
I agree with you. I also don't buy season tickets. I also don't complain and still buy season tickets. I certainly went to less games this year, they lost a lot of my money.
I just don't get why people who hate the ownership, say all they do is pocket money, don't care about the fans, don't care about winning, don't want to win, see no future and yet, they keep buying the product. It boggles my mind.
Well, I get that, given what VA said about his son. Nothing can replace time spent with family. Even if it is watching this putrid product. Pirates ownership and FO should be ashamed of themselves.
IA I didn't see your first post above until after I posted my response. But you nailed it perfectly and in my own way said the same thing but you said it better.
Regarding Dogs post above about why I continued to buy tix. This is another example of Dog choosing to try and bait me. I in fact made it perfectly clear above why it is that I bought tix. It wasn't so difficult to see, you pointed it out yourself. I even said that if my son was going to be home I'd still be buying ST. My relationship with my son is about a billion times more important
Personally I've had it with Dog's obvious and continuous baiting. I don't need it and am done. This is my swan song here. Have fun Dog.
A lot of really good posters here. I'll be rooting for the day the Buccos give us something to cheer for again.
One poster has ended it for me. I treated him respect, he chooses to not reciprocate. I don't have to defend any of my actions, whether it be buying tix, not buying tix, agreeing with FO or disagreeing with FO. My actions don't even have to be consistent- fans are often irrational.
One last thing Dog - I NEVER use or used the word "HATE" about anyone. I don't hate Nutting or anyone. Whether I approve of his ownership is a different matter. This is the LAST time you put any word in my mouth.
I have a higher right to seat upgrades (which I exercised for this season's tickets), more "points" which I can convert into different events or merchandise (points are awarded on type of plan, seat location and years of seniority. There are some pretty good events that I get invited to (I had the opportunity to participate in a Q&A with Neal, Frank and Clint yesterday, but I had a conflict and missed it unfortunately; been treated to a road game by bus; etc).
Most important, I love the Pirates and baseball. (We had pen's ST, but dropped them to keep our Pirate tix because we couldn't afford to keep both any longer). So it's no small thing to walk away. It's why this mess makes me angry - these bozos are impacting a lot of people who love the game and team. No indication they love the fans back....
Sounds like some good perks. How is that not an indication of giving the fans some love? I go to a lot of games and aren't getting those options.
Why did it take you ten years (Nuting/Huntington tenure together) to realize this or drop your tickets? If these two never changed and showed no signs of changing, why continue to give them money? Especially, if you think all they want is your money and don't care about the fans or winning.
Don't want to put words in VA's mouth, but as someone who would be a season ticket holder if I lived in Pittsburgh, I'd say it's because we're sick of that stuff. It doesn't matter. What the fans want, why they cheer for the team, is one thing and one thing only. Ws. As in wins. And lots of them.
They can sugarcoat this facade all they want with fireworks, bobble heads, Bucaroos Ask the Bucs or whatever they call it, and more for dedicated ST holders like VA. But at the end of the day, that's all it is...sugarcoating. In fact, I'd almost take it as a slap in the face. I'll bet if you asked every season ticket holder if they would rather the team spend $10 million wining and dining them over the year, or reinvest that in the team, I'd bet the response would be unanimous...PUT IT IN THE TEAM!!!
By analogy, it's like working for a company for 40 years, and on your retirement, they give you a nice greeting card. No bonus. No all expense paid vacation saying, "Thanks for all you've done for us." Not even a gift card for a nice night out with your spouse. A greeting card. Nice. Gee, thanks.
I agree with you. I also don't buy season tickets. I also don't complain and still buy season tickets. I certainly went to less games this year, they lost a lot of my money.
I just don't get why people who hate the ownership, say all they do is pocket money, don't care about the fans, don't care about winning, don't want to win, see no future and yet, they keep buying the product. It boggles my mind.
Well, I get that, given what VA said about his son. Nothing can replace time spent with family. Even if it is watching this putrid product. Pirates ownership and FO should be ashamed of themselves.
IA I didn't see your first post above until after I posted my response. But you nailed it perfectly and in my own way said the same thing but you said it better.
Regarding Dogs post above about why I continued to buy tix. This is another example of Dog choosing to try and bait me. I in fact made it perfectly clear above why it is that I bought tix. It wasn't so difficult to see, you pointed it out yourself. I even said that if my son was going to be home I'd still be buying ST. My relationship with my son is about a billion times more important
Personally I've had it with Dog's obvious and continuous baiting. I don't need it and am done. This is my swan song here. Have fun Dog.
A lot of really good posters here. I'll be rooting for the day the Buccos give us something to cheer for again.
One poster has ended it for me. I treated him respect, he chooses to not reciprocate. I don't have to defend any of my actions, whether it be buying tix, not buying tix, agreeing with FO or disagreeing with FO. My actions don't even have to be consistent- fans are often irrational.
One last thing Dog - I NEVER use or used the word "HATE" about anyone. I don't hate Nutting or anyone. Whether I approve of his ownership is a different matter. This is the LAST time you put any word in my mouth.
Strategies
4F444C4045445F1A1C6B524A4344440548442B0 wrote: What do you get with your seniority as a season ticket holder?
I have a higher right to seat upgrades (which I exercised for this season's tickets), more "points" which I can convert into different events or merchandise (points are awarded on type of plan, seat location and years of seniority. There are some pretty good events that I get invited to (I had the opportunity to participate in a Q&A with Neal, Frank and Clint yesterday, but I had a conflict and missed it unfortunately; been treated to a road game by bus; etc).
Most important, I love the Pirates and baseball. (We had pen's ST, but dropped them to keep our Pirate tix because we couldn't afford to keep both any longer). So it's no small thing to walk away. It's why this mess makes me angry - these bozos are impacting a lot of people who love the game and team. No indication they love the fans back....
Sounds like some good perks. How is that not an indication of giving the fans some love? I go to a lot of games and aren't getting those options.
Why did it take you ten years (Nuting/Huntington tenure together) to realize this or drop your tickets? If these two never changed and showed no signs of changing, why continue to give them money? Especially, if you think all they want is your money and don't care about the fans or winning.
Don't want to put words in VA's mouth, but as someone who would be a season ticket holder if I lived in Pittsburgh, I'd say it's because we're sick of that stuff. It doesn't matter. What the fans want, why they cheer for the team, is one thing and one thing only. Ws. As in wins. And lots of them.
They can sugarcoat this facade all they want with fireworks, bobble heads, Bucaroos Ask the Bucs or whatever they call it, and more for dedicated ST holders like VA. But at the end of the day, that's all it is...sugarcoating. In fact, I'd almost take it as a slap in the face. I'll bet if you asked every season ticket holder if they would rather the team spend $10 million wining and dining them over the year, or reinvest that in the team, I'd bet the response would be unanimous...PUT IT IN THE TEAM!!!
By analogy, it's like working for a company for 40 years, and on your retirement, they give you a nice greeting card. No bonus. No all expense paid vacation saying, "Thanks for all you've done for us." Not even a gift card for a nice night out with your spouse. A greeting card. Nice. Gee, thanks.
I agree with you. I also don't buy season tickets. I also don't complain and still buy season tickets. I certainly went to less games this year, they lost a lot of my money.
I just don't get why people who hate the ownership, say all they do is pocket money, don't care about the fans, don't care about winning, don't want to win, see no future and yet, they keep buying the product. It boggles my mind.
Well, I get that, given what VA said about his son. Nothing can replace time spent with family. Even if it is watching this putrid product. Pirates ownership and FO should be ashamed of themselves.
It is also sad to me how people look for the negatives. This ownership built a team to stop the 15 years of losing. Yeah, they lost some five years as they built it up from scratch. No easy task at all. We all saw it. We saw the future and what was happening. People started to buy in. Attendance was rising in 2011, 2012 like never before. Three years in a row of making the playoffs. But that is all erased after two losing seasons. Why is that? Why do people think they can't turn it around again? Everyone else can repeat history, except the Pirates. The bad does not outweigh the good. It might soon if they don't start winning, but they are not at that point yet. It's a shame people didn't enjoy 2011-2015 and just focus on complaining about 2016 and 2017.
Dog, you said it your post, people saw the future and started to buy in. Now people see the future and are bailing.
I have a higher right to seat upgrades (which I exercised for this season's tickets), more "points" which I can convert into different events or merchandise (points are awarded on type of plan, seat location and years of seniority. There are some pretty good events that I get invited to (I had the opportunity to participate in a Q&A with Neal, Frank and Clint yesterday, but I had a conflict and missed it unfortunately; been treated to a road game by bus; etc).
Most important, I love the Pirates and baseball. (We had pen's ST, but dropped them to keep our Pirate tix because we couldn't afford to keep both any longer). So it's no small thing to walk away. It's why this mess makes me angry - these bozos are impacting a lot of people who love the game and team. No indication they love the fans back....
Sounds like some good perks. How is that not an indication of giving the fans some love? I go to a lot of games and aren't getting those options.
Why did it take you ten years (Nuting/Huntington tenure together) to realize this or drop your tickets? If these two never changed and showed no signs of changing, why continue to give them money? Especially, if you think all they want is your money and don't care about the fans or winning.
Don't want to put words in VA's mouth, but as someone who would be a season ticket holder if I lived in Pittsburgh, I'd say it's because we're sick of that stuff. It doesn't matter. What the fans want, why they cheer for the team, is one thing and one thing only. Ws. As in wins. And lots of them.
They can sugarcoat this facade all they want with fireworks, bobble heads, Bucaroos Ask the Bucs or whatever they call it, and more for dedicated ST holders like VA. But at the end of the day, that's all it is...sugarcoating. In fact, I'd almost take it as a slap in the face. I'll bet if you asked every season ticket holder if they would rather the team spend $10 million wining and dining them over the year, or reinvest that in the team, I'd bet the response would be unanimous...PUT IT IN THE TEAM!!!
By analogy, it's like working for a company for 40 years, and on your retirement, they give you a nice greeting card. No bonus. No all expense paid vacation saying, "Thanks for all you've done for us." Not even a gift card for a nice night out with your spouse. A greeting card. Nice. Gee, thanks.
I agree with you. I also don't buy season tickets. I also don't complain and still buy season tickets. I certainly went to less games this year, they lost a lot of my money.
I just don't get why people who hate the ownership, say all they do is pocket money, don't care about the fans, don't care about winning, don't want to win, see no future and yet, they keep buying the product. It boggles my mind.
Well, I get that, given what VA said about his son. Nothing can replace time spent with family. Even if it is watching this putrid product. Pirates ownership and FO should be ashamed of themselves.
It is also sad to me how people look for the negatives. This ownership built a team to stop the 15 years of losing. Yeah, they lost some five years as they built it up from scratch. No easy task at all. We all saw it. We saw the future and what was happening. People started to buy in. Attendance was rising in 2011, 2012 like never before. Three years in a row of making the playoffs. But that is all erased after two losing seasons. Why is that? Why do people think they can't turn it around again? Everyone else can repeat history, except the Pirates. The bad does not outweigh the good. It might soon if they don't start winning, but they are not at that point yet. It's a shame people didn't enjoy 2011-2015 and just focus on complaining about 2016 and 2017.
Dog, you said it your post, people saw the future and started to buy in. Now people see the future and are bailing.
Strategies
2C272F2326273C797F083129202727662B27480 wrote: It's a shame people didn't enjoy 2011-2015 and just focus on complaining about 2016 and 2017.
Anybody else catch this gem?
Look where the goalposts have been moved to now.
2011 and 2012, the two worst collapses, in franchise history, in back to back seasons, no less, are now included in what are considered to be the good years for this management team?
Ha!!! Ha!!! Very nice. That's real success!!
Anybody else catch this gem?
Look where the goalposts have been moved to now.
2011 and 2012, the two worst collapses, in franchise history, in back to back seasons, no less, are now included in what are considered to be the good years for this management team?
Ha!!! Ha!!! Very nice. That's real success!!
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
Strategies
6C4C5F42432D0 wrote: It's a shame people didn't enjoy 2011-2015 and just focus on complaining about 2016 and 2017.
Anybody else catch this gem?
Look where the goalposts have been moved to now.
2011 and 2012, the two worst collapses, in franchise history, in back to back seasons, no less, are now included in what are considered to be the good years for this management team?
Ha!!! Ha!!! Very nice. That's real success!!
Yeah, been saying it for a long time. Where have you been? That was the end of the rebuild and when the team going forward was pretty much put together. Very bad collapses for sure, but the core was finally playing together knowing other pieces were coming up.
Keep focusing on 2016 and 2017...stay negative!
Anybody else catch this gem?
Look where the goalposts have been moved to now.
2011 and 2012, the two worst collapses, in franchise history, in back to back seasons, no less, are now included in what are considered to be the good years for this management team?
Ha!!! Ha!!! Very nice. That's real success!!
Yeah, been saying it for a long time. Where have you been? That was the end of the rebuild and when the team going forward was pretty much put together. Very bad collapses for sure, but the core was finally playing together knowing other pieces were coming up.
Keep focusing on 2016 and 2017...stay negative!
-
Bobster21
Strategies
474C44484D4C571214635A424B4C4C0D404C230 wrote: It's a shame people didn't enjoy 2011-2015 and just focus on complaining about 2016 and 2017.
Anybody else catch this gem?
Look where the goalposts have been moved to now.
2011 and 2012, the two worst collapses, in franchise history, in back to back seasons, no less, are now included in what are considered to be the good years for this management team?
Ha!!! Ha!!! Very nice. That's real success!!
Yeah, been saying it for a long time. Where have you been? That was the end of the rebuild and when the team going forward was pretty much put together. Very bad collapses for sure, but the core was finally playing together knowing other pieces were coming up.
Keep focusing on 2016 and 2017...stay negative!
Dog, it's not as simple as merely choosing to be positive or choosing to be negative. It's not as simple as they were losing, then they were winning, now they are losing, so they can win again. Fans focus on 2016 and 2017 because that's where we are. We are where we are because of a shift in how the team is run. The priority of building a winner has been replaced by the priority of saving money. There is frustrating consistency in the nature (or lack of) personnel moves these past 2 years that has had a direct consequence on the team's ability to compete. Staying positive won't change that. Focusing on the years prior to the discouraging way the team is now run won't change that. Just like you, all the posters here want the Pirates to succeed and be serious contenders. But unlike you, most posters recognize the serious flaws in how the team has been operated these last 2 years and find it unacceptable and taking the joy out of rooting for the team we all love. If I thought choosing to stay positive would turn this team around, I'd be grinning like a fool during every shutout loss. But the Nutting regime took the team to a good place and then shifted philosophies and downgraded the team into what we now see. As long as they choose to lower payroll and settle for mediocre players instead of adding key players, there won't be much to be positive about.
Anybody else catch this gem?
Look where the goalposts have been moved to now.
2011 and 2012, the two worst collapses, in franchise history, in back to back seasons, no less, are now included in what are considered to be the good years for this management team?
Ha!!! Ha!!! Very nice. That's real success!!
Yeah, been saying it for a long time. Where have you been? That was the end of the rebuild and when the team going forward was pretty much put together. Very bad collapses for sure, but the core was finally playing together knowing other pieces were coming up.
Keep focusing on 2016 and 2017...stay negative!
Dog, it's not as simple as merely choosing to be positive or choosing to be negative. It's not as simple as they were losing, then they were winning, now they are losing, so they can win again. Fans focus on 2016 and 2017 because that's where we are. We are where we are because of a shift in how the team is run. The priority of building a winner has been replaced by the priority of saving money. There is frustrating consistency in the nature (or lack of) personnel moves these past 2 years that has had a direct consequence on the team's ability to compete. Staying positive won't change that. Focusing on the years prior to the discouraging way the team is now run won't change that. Just like you, all the posters here want the Pirates to succeed and be serious contenders. But unlike you, most posters recognize the serious flaws in how the team has been operated these last 2 years and find it unacceptable and taking the joy out of rooting for the team we all love. If I thought choosing to stay positive would turn this team around, I'd be grinning like a fool during every shutout loss. But the Nutting regime took the team to a good place and then shifted philosophies and downgraded the team into what we now see. As long as they choose to lower payroll and settle for mediocre players instead of adding key players, there won't be much to be positive about.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
Strategies
082528393E2F38787B4A0 wrote: It's a shame people didn't enjoy 2011-2015 and just focus on complaining about 2016 and 2017.
Anybody else catch this gem?
Look where the goalposts have been moved to now.
2011 and 2012, the two worst collapses, in franchise history, in back to back seasons, no less, are now included in what are considered to be the good years for this management team?
Ha!!! Ha!!! Very nice. That's real success!!
Yeah, been saying it for a long time. Where have you been? That was the end of the rebuild and when the team going forward was pretty much put together. Very bad collapses for sure, but the core was finally playing together knowing other pieces were coming up.
Keep focusing on 2016 and 2017...stay negative!
Dog, it's not as simple as merely choosing to be positive or choosing to be negative. It's not as simple as they were losing, then they were winning, now they are losing, so they can win again. Fans focus on 2016 and 2017 because that's where we are. We are where we are because of a shift in how the team is run. The priority of building a winner has been replaced by the priority of saving money. There is frustrating consistency in the nature (or lack of) personnel moves these past 2 years that has had a direct consequence on the team's ability to compete. Staying positive won't change that. Focusing on the years prior to the discouraging way the team is now run won't change that. Just like you, all the posters here want the Pirates to succeed and be serious contenders. But unlike you, most posters recognize the serious flaws in how the team has been operated these last 2 years and find it unacceptable and taking the joy out of rooting for the team we all love. If I thought choosing to stay positive would turn this team around, I'd be grinning like a fool during every shutout loss. But the Nutting regime took the team to a good place and then shifted philosophies and downgraded the team into what we now see. As long as they choose to lower payroll and settle for mediocre players instead of adding key players, there won't be much to be positive about.
I understand the flaws, I point them out too. You are right, I do focus on the positives more than the negatives.
I don't think there was a shift in philosophes. The talent changed. The talent was worse. That doesn't mean it won't change back to where they were winners and contenders. I do give the benefit of the doubt to Huntington because he did it before. He turned the franchise around big time. Now, it's he is a bad GM, can never compete, will never be good again. I do not understand that thought process at all.
Every thread now someone brings up the Ownership and mocks The Best Management Team in Baseball. Sorry, I don't want to get on board with the negative overtone and ask questions on why people who dislike the Owner so much but continue to support him with their money.
Anybody else catch this gem?
Look where the goalposts have been moved to now.
2011 and 2012, the two worst collapses, in franchise history, in back to back seasons, no less, are now included in what are considered to be the good years for this management team?
Ha!!! Ha!!! Very nice. That's real success!!
Yeah, been saying it for a long time. Where have you been? That was the end of the rebuild and when the team going forward was pretty much put together. Very bad collapses for sure, but the core was finally playing together knowing other pieces were coming up.
Keep focusing on 2016 and 2017...stay negative!
Dog, it's not as simple as merely choosing to be positive or choosing to be negative. It's not as simple as they were losing, then they were winning, now they are losing, so they can win again. Fans focus on 2016 and 2017 because that's where we are. We are where we are because of a shift in how the team is run. The priority of building a winner has been replaced by the priority of saving money. There is frustrating consistency in the nature (or lack of) personnel moves these past 2 years that has had a direct consequence on the team's ability to compete. Staying positive won't change that. Focusing on the years prior to the discouraging way the team is now run won't change that. Just like you, all the posters here want the Pirates to succeed and be serious contenders. But unlike you, most posters recognize the serious flaws in how the team has been operated these last 2 years and find it unacceptable and taking the joy out of rooting for the team we all love. If I thought choosing to stay positive would turn this team around, I'd be grinning like a fool during every shutout loss. But the Nutting regime took the team to a good place and then shifted philosophies and downgraded the team into what we now see. As long as they choose to lower payroll and settle for mediocre players instead of adding key players, there won't be much to be positive about.
I understand the flaws, I point them out too. You are right, I do focus on the positives more than the negatives.
I don't think there was a shift in philosophes. The talent changed. The talent was worse. That doesn't mean it won't change back to where they were winners and contenders. I do give the benefit of the doubt to Huntington because he did it before. He turned the franchise around big time. Now, it's he is a bad GM, can never compete, will never be good again. I do not understand that thought process at all.
Every thread now someone brings up the Ownership and mocks The Best Management Team in Baseball. Sorry, I don't want to get on board with the negative overtone and ask questions on why people who dislike the Owner so much but continue to support him with their money.
Strategies
7D767E7277766D282E596078717676377A76190 wrote: It's a shame people didn't enjoy 2011-2015 and just focus on complaining about 2016 and 2017.
Anybody else catch this gem?
Look where the goalposts have been moved to now.
2011 and 2012, the two worst collapses, in franchise history, in back to back seasons, no less, are now included in what are considered to be the good years for this management team?
Ha!!! Ha!!! Very nice. That's real success!!
Yeah, been saying it for a long time. Where have you been? That was the end of the rebuild and when the team going forward was pretty much put together. Very bad collapses for sure, but the core was finally playing together knowing other pieces were coming up.
Keep focusing on 2016 and 2017...stay negative!
Dog, it's not as simple as merely choosing to be positive or choosing to be negative. It's not as simple as they were losing, then they were winning, now they are losing, so they can win again. Fans focus on 2016 and 2017 because that's where we are. We are where we are because of a shift in how the team is run. The priority of building a winner has been replaced by the priority of saving money. There is frustrating consistency in the nature (or lack of) personnel moves these past 2 years that has had a direct consequence on the team's ability to compete. Staying positive won't change that. Focusing on the years prior to the discouraging way the team is now run won't change that. Just like you, all the posters here want the Pirates to succeed and be serious contenders. But unlike you, most posters recognize the serious flaws in how the team has been operated these last 2 years and find it unacceptable and taking the joy out of rooting for the team we all love. If I thought choosing to stay positive would turn this team around, I'd be grinning like a fool during every shutout loss. But the Nutting regime took the team to a good place and then shifted philosophies and downgraded the team into what we now see. As long as they choose to lower payroll and settle for mediocre players instead of adding key players, there won't be much to be positive about.
I understand the flaws, I point them out too. You are right, I do focus on the positives more than the negatives.
I don't think there was a shift in philosophes. The talent changed. The talent was worse. That doesn't mean it won't change back to where they were winners and contenders. I do give the benefit of the doubt to Huntington because he did it before. He turned the franchise around big time. Now, it's he is a bad GM, can never compete, will never be good again. I do not understand that thought process at all.
Every thread now someone brings up the Ownership and mocks The Best Management Team in Baseball. Sorry, I don't want to get on board with the negative overtone and ask questions on why people who dislike the Owner so much but continue to support him with their money.
I can agree with you to an extent. Life's too short to get all worked up about a baseball game or season. 2013-2015 were a blast. The last two years, not so much. But, I haven't so much as turned a Pirates game on over the last month plus. It's been very freeing. Why? Because like you, I don't have time to dwell on the negatives, and since there aren't any positives to speak of, I just choose not to watch.
But, to your overarching point...yes, the talent got worse. Why? Well, I think we can point to a few things:
1. Good players left, notably Burnett, Martin, and Walker, and were not replaced with equal or better players.
2. Other players regressed, notably Liriano, McCutchen, Marte, Cole, and Cervelli
3. Other players got stuck in a foreign country (Kang)
4. Other players have never lived up to potential (Polanco).
Why did all of this happen? I don't know...age, PEDs, regression to the mean, stupidity, any number of things.
The bottom line for me though is that this ownership group calls regular increases in payroll due to service time "growing the payroll." Twenty nine other teams call that the cost of doing business. Then, after crying poverty all day long, they go out and spend $$$ on guys like Drew Hutchison, Daniel Hudson, and David Freese to (at the time) be a back-up. Then, they double down on their stupidity and bring in another back-up in Sean Rodriguez, to presumably back up the other back-up they are starting in place of Kang.
They double down by not only trading away their starting second baseman, they trade him for a journeyman pitcher to replace a guy coming off an All-Star season who had just had the best year of his career.
They double down by not trading prospects, which I generally agree with, by instead trading prospects when it means they can shed a bad contract.
It's the same thing over, and over, and over again. And I think most fans are sick of it. I can't imagine the players are excited to be in Pittsburgh any more. Two years ago, people wanted to come to the Pirates and play. Now, I suspect McCutchen can't get out of town fast enough.
The whole team, from ownership on down, should be embarrassed. Not, mind you, because of the record. Teams have down years. Teams have rebuilding years. It happens. But, this year was an utter disaster for the organization as a whole. The MLB team stunk and played with about as much heart as a high school senior on his last day of school. The MiLB system wasn't much better, at least from where I'm sitting. Yes, they produced a lot of guys who got regular MLB time like Osuna, Diaz, Kuhl, Williams, Glasnow, etc. But, aside from Bell, did any of our "prospects" have a great year?
To top it all off, they continually take underhanded jabs at the fans and say asinine things like, "When the fans come out to support us, we'll have more to spend on the team." First of all, that's patently false, as the fans did come out in 13-15. Did payroll go up? Maybe incidentally, due to raises for pre-arb and arb guys. But again, 29 other teams write that off as the cost of doing business. Not your PBC though. But second of all, and in my mind, more important, can you imagine another business model where that would be good strategy?
"Hey! I've got a parachute, guaranteed to open 50% of the time! Once we get enough customers, I'm going to invest more into R&D and produce a parachute that will open 75% of the time! After that, we'll hopefully be able to make a parachute that will open close to 100% of the time! But, we can only do this if you, our loyal customers, buy our "guaranteed to open 50% of the time parachute!"
That's crazy! Or, try this one...
Best Buy CEO to executive VPs: "Guys, we've been having some problems getting customers in our stores. Any ideas?"
VP of sales: "Well, we could start by actually having some merchandise for them to buy when they come in."
VP of marketing: "No, no, no, no, no! We can only put merchandise in our stores when customers buy something. If they aren't buying our products, we can't very well put other stuff in our stores."
VP of sales: "But, we don't have anything in our stores for them to buy."
VP of marketing: "That's beside the point. They'll come pay to try the demo iPads or the demo X-Box."
Again...insane. But, this is essentially what the FO is saying when they insinuate that it's the fans fault they can't invest in the team, even if that were in fact the case, which it most certainly is not.
Hey Neal, Frank, Bob...if you are reading this...we don't want any more fireworks nights. No more bobble heads. No more pierogi races. No more trivia on the boardwalk. No more Bucaroos ask the Bucs. No more Cervelli giving love advice. Just put a winner on the field. That's it. Nothing else. Just play baseball.
Anybody else catch this gem?
Look where the goalposts have been moved to now.
2011 and 2012, the two worst collapses, in franchise history, in back to back seasons, no less, are now included in what are considered to be the good years for this management team?
Ha!!! Ha!!! Very nice. That's real success!!
Yeah, been saying it for a long time. Where have you been? That was the end of the rebuild and when the team going forward was pretty much put together. Very bad collapses for sure, but the core was finally playing together knowing other pieces were coming up.
Keep focusing on 2016 and 2017...stay negative!
Dog, it's not as simple as merely choosing to be positive or choosing to be negative. It's not as simple as they were losing, then they were winning, now they are losing, so they can win again. Fans focus on 2016 and 2017 because that's where we are. We are where we are because of a shift in how the team is run. The priority of building a winner has been replaced by the priority of saving money. There is frustrating consistency in the nature (or lack of) personnel moves these past 2 years that has had a direct consequence on the team's ability to compete. Staying positive won't change that. Focusing on the years prior to the discouraging way the team is now run won't change that. Just like you, all the posters here want the Pirates to succeed and be serious contenders. But unlike you, most posters recognize the serious flaws in how the team has been operated these last 2 years and find it unacceptable and taking the joy out of rooting for the team we all love. If I thought choosing to stay positive would turn this team around, I'd be grinning like a fool during every shutout loss. But the Nutting regime took the team to a good place and then shifted philosophies and downgraded the team into what we now see. As long as they choose to lower payroll and settle for mediocre players instead of adding key players, there won't be much to be positive about.
I understand the flaws, I point them out too. You are right, I do focus on the positives more than the negatives.
I don't think there was a shift in philosophes. The talent changed. The talent was worse. That doesn't mean it won't change back to where they were winners and contenders. I do give the benefit of the doubt to Huntington because he did it before. He turned the franchise around big time. Now, it's he is a bad GM, can never compete, will never be good again. I do not understand that thought process at all.
Every thread now someone brings up the Ownership and mocks The Best Management Team in Baseball. Sorry, I don't want to get on board with the negative overtone and ask questions on why people who dislike the Owner so much but continue to support him with their money.
I can agree with you to an extent. Life's too short to get all worked up about a baseball game or season. 2013-2015 were a blast. The last two years, not so much. But, I haven't so much as turned a Pirates game on over the last month plus. It's been very freeing. Why? Because like you, I don't have time to dwell on the negatives, and since there aren't any positives to speak of, I just choose not to watch.
But, to your overarching point...yes, the talent got worse. Why? Well, I think we can point to a few things:
1. Good players left, notably Burnett, Martin, and Walker, and were not replaced with equal or better players.
2. Other players regressed, notably Liriano, McCutchen, Marte, Cole, and Cervelli
3. Other players got stuck in a foreign country (Kang)
4. Other players have never lived up to potential (Polanco).
Why did all of this happen? I don't know...age, PEDs, regression to the mean, stupidity, any number of things.
The bottom line for me though is that this ownership group calls regular increases in payroll due to service time "growing the payroll." Twenty nine other teams call that the cost of doing business. Then, after crying poverty all day long, they go out and spend $$$ on guys like Drew Hutchison, Daniel Hudson, and David Freese to (at the time) be a back-up. Then, they double down on their stupidity and bring in another back-up in Sean Rodriguez, to presumably back up the other back-up they are starting in place of Kang.
They double down by not only trading away their starting second baseman, they trade him for a journeyman pitcher to replace a guy coming off an All-Star season who had just had the best year of his career.
They double down by not trading prospects, which I generally agree with, by instead trading prospects when it means they can shed a bad contract.
It's the same thing over, and over, and over again. And I think most fans are sick of it. I can't imagine the players are excited to be in Pittsburgh any more. Two years ago, people wanted to come to the Pirates and play. Now, I suspect McCutchen can't get out of town fast enough.
The whole team, from ownership on down, should be embarrassed. Not, mind you, because of the record. Teams have down years. Teams have rebuilding years. It happens. But, this year was an utter disaster for the organization as a whole. The MLB team stunk and played with about as much heart as a high school senior on his last day of school. The MiLB system wasn't much better, at least from where I'm sitting. Yes, they produced a lot of guys who got regular MLB time like Osuna, Diaz, Kuhl, Williams, Glasnow, etc. But, aside from Bell, did any of our "prospects" have a great year?
To top it all off, they continually take underhanded jabs at the fans and say asinine things like, "When the fans come out to support us, we'll have more to spend on the team." First of all, that's patently false, as the fans did come out in 13-15. Did payroll go up? Maybe incidentally, due to raises for pre-arb and arb guys. But again, 29 other teams write that off as the cost of doing business. Not your PBC though. But second of all, and in my mind, more important, can you imagine another business model where that would be good strategy?
"Hey! I've got a parachute, guaranteed to open 50% of the time! Once we get enough customers, I'm going to invest more into R&D and produce a parachute that will open 75% of the time! After that, we'll hopefully be able to make a parachute that will open close to 100% of the time! But, we can only do this if you, our loyal customers, buy our "guaranteed to open 50% of the time parachute!"
That's crazy! Or, try this one...
Best Buy CEO to executive VPs: "Guys, we've been having some problems getting customers in our stores. Any ideas?"
VP of sales: "Well, we could start by actually having some merchandise for them to buy when they come in."
VP of marketing: "No, no, no, no, no! We can only put merchandise in our stores when customers buy something. If they aren't buying our products, we can't very well put other stuff in our stores."
VP of sales: "But, we don't have anything in our stores for them to buy."
VP of marketing: "That's beside the point. They'll come pay to try the demo iPads or the demo X-Box."
Again...insane. But, this is essentially what the FO is saying when they insinuate that it's the fans fault they can't invest in the team, even if that were in fact the case, which it most certainly is not.
Hey Neal, Frank, Bob...if you are reading this...we don't want any more fireworks nights. No more bobble heads. No more pierogi races. No more trivia on the boardwalk. No more Bucaroos ask the Bucs. No more Cervelli giving love advice. Just put a winner on the field. That's it. Nothing else. Just play baseball.