644655484B4E49466552444448270 wrote: I think the blame starts at the top. Neal is not stupid. He knows last year's team had a losing record and finished 25 games behind the Cubs, might as well have been 50 games the gap was so wide.
So he had to know you cannot just bring back essentially the same team and expect different results. And of course it wasn't even the same team ... it's a worse team, with a bench that is significantly weaker and the overall team completely void of power.
Neal HAD to know that. But his hands were tied and he had severe limitations on what he could do budget-wise.
So what I'm saying is that even with Kang and Marte this team would only be marginally better than what it is now. The team as currently constituted has serious issues. Even with Kang and Marte the club would still have issues.
With them, I think we are an 81-81 kind of team.
Without them, I think we are looking at 71-91.
Point is, even with them, we weren't going to be very good.
This is a very spot on post from my perspective. No, Neal isn't dumb. He has done well at times bringing in undervalued players which made an impact. This year, nope. Hudson and Gosselin doesn't do it for me.
Our best hope from a franchise perspective that one day the cheapskate will sell the team. I don't see it happening anytime soon and that will be the problem.
With our current standing now and the flawed roster, I wouldn't be stunned if Cole goes at the trade deadline. He isn't resigning here. May as well max out his trade value as holding onto him for another year won't bring a better value next year.
IF...Clint was to be fired
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
IF...Clint was to be fired
When does benefit of doubt run out?
We knew it would take years for Huntington and the team to turn the franchise around. 2011 was looking like the year they finally won, but then Jerry Meals ruined that. I thought 2012 would break the streak, it didn't.
Then they had three years of winning and playoffs. Playoffs. Not only didn't they win for 20 years, they jumped right into the Playoffs. They stayed there for three seasons.
One losing season in 2016 and a few games under .500 to start 2017, and now everyone is being questioned. That three out of four year playoff run has to mean something, right?
In my opinion, more time should be given. Huntington got rid of some very good players thinking there were replacements in place. If they don't pan out, he will be in trouble. But I think that is years down the road. The earliest change in my opinion would be in 2018, but that is also when the organization's top minor leaguers will (should) be coming up.
I don't really have an opinion on Hurdle. I love his leadership and the respect he gets among his players. I don't like how he gets no respect from the umpires or his strategies. But I also don't think anyone would do anything different. Most managers manage in-game the same.
We knew it would take years for Huntington and the team to turn the franchise around. 2011 was looking like the year they finally won, but then Jerry Meals ruined that. I thought 2012 would break the streak, it didn't.
Then they had three years of winning and playoffs. Playoffs. Not only didn't they win for 20 years, they jumped right into the Playoffs. They stayed there for three seasons.
One losing season in 2016 and a few games under .500 to start 2017, and now everyone is being questioned. That three out of four year playoff run has to mean something, right?
In my opinion, more time should be given. Huntington got rid of some very good players thinking there were replacements in place. If they don't pan out, he will be in trouble. But I think that is years down the road. The earliest change in my opinion would be in 2018, but that is also when the organization's top minor leaguers will (should) be coming up.
I don't really have an opinion on Hurdle. I love his leadership and the respect he gets among his players. I don't like how he gets no respect from the umpires or his strategies. But I also don't think anyone would do anything different. Most managers manage in-game the same.
IF...Clint was to be fired
5C575F5356574C090F784159505757165B57380 wrote: When does benefit of doubt run out?
We knew it would take years for Huntington and the team to turn the franchise around. 2011 was looking like the year they finally won, but then Jerry Meals ruined that. I thought 2012 would break the streak, it didn't.
Then they had three years of winning and playoffs. Playoffs. Not only didn't they win for 20 years, they jumped right into the Playoffs. They stayed there for three seasons.
One losing season in 2016 and a few games under .500 to start 2017, and now everyone is being questioned. That three out of four year playoff run has to mean something, right?
In my opinion, more time should be given. Huntington got rid of some very good players thinking there were replacements in place. If they don't pan out, he will be in trouble. But I think that is years down the road. The earliest change in my opinion would be in 2018, but that is also when the organization's top minor leaguers will (should) be coming up.
I don't really have an opinion on Hurdle. I love his leadership and the respect he gets among his players. I don't like how he gets no respect from the umpires or his strategies. But I also don't think anyone would do anything different. Most managers manage in-game the same.
Dude, our window of opportunity is essentially closed and that is the fault of the owner for not continuing the momentum and continuing the build and bring in pieces that help win division titles. You ask for more time. What does more time do? We have a former all-star that will be gone at the trade deadline, the former face of the franchise. We have another uber talented guy on suspension. What comes of Marte upon return? We have a starting third baseman still in Korea for off the field run ins with the law. Does Kang ever return to the US and get back to being a good player? Our number one starter is two years from free agency and WON'T RESIGN HERE. NH should be in sell more with him at the trade deadline to maximize the return (hopefully he isn't injured at the time).
Again, more time brings what exactly? When you have an owner who doesn't want to take the next step (and again, I'm not saying go all Cubs, or Red Sox in the throw money away like its going out of style), then you have what exactly? You are essentially the Brewers all the sudden.
The playoff run brought hope to the fans. However most are starting to see the light relative to this franchise again. Does it mean something? Sure, I guess. KC continued to build on momentum and won a title. We didn't and now this roster isn't close to being a playoff contending team. Don't tell me it is. It's almost like this is a totally different organization trending down instead of up.
We knew it would take years for Huntington and the team to turn the franchise around. 2011 was looking like the year they finally won, but then Jerry Meals ruined that. I thought 2012 would break the streak, it didn't.
Then they had three years of winning and playoffs. Playoffs. Not only didn't they win for 20 years, they jumped right into the Playoffs. They stayed there for three seasons.
One losing season in 2016 and a few games under .500 to start 2017, and now everyone is being questioned. That three out of four year playoff run has to mean something, right?
In my opinion, more time should be given. Huntington got rid of some very good players thinking there were replacements in place. If they don't pan out, he will be in trouble. But I think that is years down the road. The earliest change in my opinion would be in 2018, but that is also when the organization's top minor leaguers will (should) be coming up.
I don't really have an opinion on Hurdle. I love his leadership and the respect he gets among his players. I don't like how he gets no respect from the umpires or his strategies. But I also don't think anyone would do anything different. Most managers manage in-game the same.
Dude, our window of opportunity is essentially closed and that is the fault of the owner for not continuing the momentum and continuing the build and bring in pieces that help win division titles. You ask for more time. What does more time do? We have a former all-star that will be gone at the trade deadline, the former face of the franchise. We have another uber talented guy on suspension. What comes of Marte upon return? We have a starting third baseman still in Korea for off the field run ins with the law. Does Kang ever return to the US and get back to being a good player? Our number one starter is two years from free agency and WON'T RESIGN HERE. NH should be in sell more with him at the trade deadline to maximize the return (hopefully he isn't injured at the time).
Again, more time brings what exactly? When you have an owner who doesn't want to take the next step (and again, I'm not saying go all Cubs, or Red Sox in the throw money away like its going out of style), then you have what exactly? You are essentially the Brewers all the sudden.
The playoff run brought hope to the fans. However most are starting to see the light relative to this franchise again. Does it mean something? Sure, I guess. KC continued to build on momentum and won a title. We didn't and now this roster isn't close to being a playoff contending team. Don't tell me it is. It's almost like this is a totally different organization trending down instead of up.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
IF...Clint was to be fired
6878794E5858543B0 wrote: When does benefit of doubt run out?
We knew it would take years for Huntington and the team to turn the franchise around. 2011 was looking like the year they finally won, but then Jerry Meals ruined that. I thought 2012 would break the streak, it didn't.
Then they had three years of winning and playoffs. Playoffs. Not only didn't they win for 20 years, they jumped right into the Playoffs. They stayed there for three seasons.
One losing season in 2016 and a few games under .500 to start 2017, and now everyone is being questioned. That three out of four year playoff run has to mean something, right?
In my opinion, more time should be given. Huntington got rid of some very good players thinking there were replacements in place. If they don't pan out, he will be in trouble. But I think that is years down the road. The earliest change in my opinion would be in 2018, but that is also when the organization's top minor leaguers will (should) be coming up.
I don't really have an opinion on Hurdle. I love his leadership and the respect he gets among his players. I don't like how he gets no respect from the umpires or his strategies. But I also don't think anyone would do anything different. Most managers manage in-game the same.
Dude, our window of opportunity is essentially closed and that is the fault of the owner for not continuing the momentum and continuing the build and bring in pieces that help win division titles. You ask for more time. What does more time do? We have a former all-star that will be gone at the trade deadline, the former face of the franchise. We have another uber talented guy on suspension. What comes of Marte upon return? We have a starting third baseman still in Korea for off the field run ins with the law. Does Kang ever return to the US and get back to being a good player? Our number one starter is two years from free agency and WON'T RESIGN HERE. NH should be in sell more with him at the trade deadline to maximize the return (hopefully he isn't injured at the time).
Again, more time brings what exactly? When you have an owner who doesn't want to take the next step (and again, I'm not saying go all Cubs, or Red Sox in the throw money away like its going out of style), then you have what exactly? You are essentially the Brewers all the sudden.
The playoff run brought hope to the fans. However most are starting to see the light relative to this franchise again. Does it mean something? Sure, I guess. KC continued to build on momentum and won a title. We didn't and now this roster isn't close to being a playoff contending team. Don't tell me it is. It's almost like this is a totally different organization trending down instead of up.
More time gives Huntington the chance to rebuild again. That is what I meant. If you bring in another GM, they will blow up the team too. Should Huntington get the benefit of the doubt to build it back up again? He clearly has done it before, can he do it again?
We knew it would take years for Huntington and the team to turn the franchise around. 2011 was looking like the year they finally won, but then Jerry Meals ruined that. I thought 2012 would break the streak, it didn't.
Then they had three years of winning and playoffs. Playoffs. Not only didn't they win for 20 years, they jumped right into the Playoffs. They stayed there for three seasons.
One losing season in 2016 and a few games under .500 to start 2017, and now everyone is being questioned. That three out of four year playoff run has to mean something, right?
In my opinion, more time should be given. Huntington got rid of some very good players thinking there were replacements in place. If they don't pan out, he will be in trouble. But I think that is years down the road. The earliest change in my opinion would be in 2018, but that is also when the organization's top minor leaguers will (should) be coming up.
I don't really have an opinion on Hurdle. I love his leadership and the respect he gets among his players. I don't like how he gets no respect from the umpires or his strategies. But I also don't think anyone would do anything different. Most managers manage in-game the same.
Dude, our window of opportunity is essentially closed and that is the fault of the owner for not continuing the momentum and continuing the build and bring in pieces that help win division titles. You ask for more time. What does more time do? We have a former all-star that will be gone at the trade deadline, the former face of the franchise. We have another uber talented guy on suspension. What comes of Marte upon return? We have a starting third baseman still in Korea for off the field run ins with the law. Does Kang ever return to the US and get back to being a good player? Our number one starter is two years from free agency and WON'T RESIGN HERE. NH should be in sell more with him at the trade deadline to maximize the return (hopefully he isn't injured at the time).
Again, more time brings what exactly? When you have an owner who doesn't want to take the next step (and again, I'm not saying go all Cubs, or Red Sox in the throw money away like its going out of style), then you have what exactly? You are essentially the Brewers all the sudden.
The playoff run brought hope to the fans. However most are starting to see the light relative to this franchise again. Does it mean something? Sure, I guess. KC continued to build on momentum and won a title. We didn't and now this roster isn't close to being a playoff contending team. Don't tell me it is. It's almost like this is a totally different organization trending down instead of up.
More time gives Huntington the chance to rebuild again. That is what I meant. If you bring in another GM, they will blow up the team too. Should Huntington get the benefit of the doubt to build it back up again? He clearly has done it before, can he do it again?
IF...Clint was to be fired
If he starts rebuilding this summer (assuming the decision is made the team can't contend for post season) he might show that he deserves chance to rebuild for a couple more seasons.
If the need to rebuild is decided upon after the season is over I would just as soon have someone else in charge. The last rebuild took 7 years and that is too long.
If the need to rebuild is decided upon after the season is over I would just as soon have someone else in charge. The last rebuild took 7 years and that is too long.
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johnfluharty
IF...Clint was to be fired
What would a rebuild entail other than trading McCuthen and Cole? That we may do anyway. Who else do we have that would get us a really significant return? Our only other asset of value might be Nova, and no one wanted to sign him this offseason.
IF...Clint was to be fired
767374727A7069747D6E68651C0 wrote: What would a rebuild entail other than trading McCuthen and Cole? That we may do anyway. Who else do we have that would get us a really significant return? Our only other asset of value might be Nova, and no one wanted to sign him this offseason.
Cervelli, Daniel Hudson, (Taillon and Rivero although I can't see them dealt), Kang, Marte, Polanco)
Cervelli, Daniel Hudson, (Taillon and Rivero although I can't see them dealt), Kang, Marte, Polanco)
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
IF...Clint was to be fired
Hurdle was completely lucky by having a Cutch come along and be a freak but look like that's over now and without another super star then this team is going no where with Clint at the Helm. I think he is awful at putting the best team on the field consistantly. The players like him because he doesn't demand results they would like a manager that wins better is my opinion.