797E68606E793E324B6C666A6267256864660B0 wrote: Thanks Obama Hurdle!
"Putting pressure on the defense" sounds a lot like how we always get caught stealing or leading off first base, or what got our 3B coach from last season fired. At least we get to complain either way!
Maybe, but Skinny has a valid point. I was totally frustrated in Boston, 1 run down, no outs and two burners on 1st and 2nd (Hanson and Polanco I believe). We're challenged beyond belief to score any runs. We need 1 for extras, two to win.
What does Clint do? The obvious: puts Jordy into a bunt. What happened - Jordy pops up right behind home plate. I was going crazy before the 1st pitch to Jordy because I had no doubt Clint would try to bunt.
I was going crazy not because I was sure Jordy would mess up the execution, I was frustrated that Clint would willingly give up an out even in perfect execution. We got the worse possible result (an out and no advance) but even proper execution was not acceptable for this team.
Clint, in my VHO, made it easy on Boston. Why not double steal? It forces Boston to execute. It has the potential to materially impact the Pirates changes to win (2 runners in scoring position with no outs) if successful AND if if fails we still have the tying run in scoring position with the same 1 out the bunt guaranteed.
Against the Flubs Clint used a double steal and scored a critical run. My guess is there will not be 5 more times this season Clint forces the D to execute. We gave never used our speed to impact the game. If we had big bats I could see the rational. But we definitely do not. As Speedy said, the Pirates are challenged to score anything yet Clint plays base to base. That outs all the pressure on the Pirates bats.
Generally my mindset tends toward not bunting and not stealing. Depends on situation of course but I think you're doing yourself more harm than good a majority of the time. It's nice to say you should steal bases, but we seem to be not very good at it. While it's true that it's hard for us to score a guy from first base, it's certainly easier than trying to score someone from the dugout. The team was widely criticized for making too many outs on the basepaths last year, and rightly so.
4-18 Bucs at Cards
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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rucker59@gmail.com
4-18 Bucs at Cards
33010D0D192B08010C090601600 wrote: Thanks Obama Hurdle!
"Putting pressure on the defense" sounds a lot like how we always get caught stealing or leading off first base, or what got our 3B coach from last season fired. At least we get to complain either way!
Maybe, but Skinny has a valid point. I was totally frustrated in Boston, 1 run down, no outs and two burners on 1st and 2nd (Hanson and Polanco I believe). We're challenged beyond belief to score any runs. We need 1 for extras, two to win.
What does Clint do? The obvious: puts Jordy into a bunt. What happened - Jordy pops up right behind home plate. I was going crazy before the 1st pitch to Jordy because I had no doubt Clint would try to bunt.
I was going crazy not because I was sure Jordy would mess up the execution, I was frustrated that Clint would willingly give up an out even in perfect execution. We got the worse possible result (an out and no advance) but even proper execution was not acceptable for this team.
Clint, in my VHO, made it easy on Boston. Why not double steal? It forces Boston to execute. It has the potential to materially impact the Pirates changes to win (2 runners in scoring position with no outs) if successful AND if if fails we still have the tying run in scoring position with the same 1 out the bunt guaranteed.
Against the Flubs Clint used a double steal and scored a critical run. My guess is there will not be 5 more times this season Clint forces the D to execute. We gave never used our speed to impact the game. If we had big bats I could see the rational. But we definitely do not. As Speedy said, the Pirates are challenged to score anything yet Clint plays base to base. That outs all the pressure on the Pirates bats.
Generally my mindset tends toward not bunting and not stealing. Depends on situation of course but I think you're doing yourself more harm than good a majority of the time. It's nice to say you should steal bases, but we seem to be not very good at it. While it's true that it's hard for us to score a guy from first base, it's certainly easier than trying to score someone from the dugout.
We've got to be the worse base running team in the past 100 years (fault to the development) but we're also very poor in advancing runners. We're apparently even bad bunting. We're simply challenged to score a run.
As a result I don't have a problem with the suggestion that Clint fails "to put pressure on the D". What we're doing is not working.
"Putting pressure on the defense" sounds a lot like how we always get caught stealing or leading off first base, or what got our 3B coach from last season fired. At least we get to complain either way!
Maybe, but Skinny has a valid point. I was totally frustrated in Boston, 1 run down, no outs and two burners on 1st and 2nd (Hanson and Polanco I believe). We're challenged beyond belief to score any runs. We need 1 for extras, two to win.
What does Clint do? The obvious: puts Jordy into a bunt. What happened - Jordy pops up right behind home plate. I was going crazy before the 1st pitch to Jordy because I had no doubt Clint would try to bunt.
I was going crazy not because I was sure Jordy would mess up the execution, I was frustrated that Clint would willingly give up an out even in perfect execution. We got the worse possible result (an out and no advance) but even proper execution was not acceptable for this team.
Clint, in my VHO, made it easy on Boston. Why not double steal? It forces Boston to execute. It has the potential to materially impact the Pirates changes to win (2 runners in scoring position with no outs) if successful AND if if fails we still have the tying run in scoring position with the same 1 out the bunt guaranteed.
Against the Flubs Clint used a double steal and scored a critical run. My guess is there will not be 5 more times this season Clint forces the D to execute. We gave never used our speed to impact the game. If we had big bats I could see the rational. But we definitely do not. As Speedy said, the Pirates are challenged to score anything yet Clint plays base to base. That outs all the pressure on the Pirates bats.
Generally my mindset tends toward not bunting and not stealing. Depends on situation of course but I think you're doing yourself more harm than good a majority of the time. It's nice to say you should steal bases, but we seem to be not very good at it. While it's true that it's hard for us to score a guy from first base, it's certainly easier than trying to score someone from the dugout.
We've got to be the worse base running team in the past 100 years (fault to the development) but we're also very poor in advancing runners. We're apparently even bad bunting. We're simply challenged to score a run.
As a result I don't have a problem with the suggestion that Clint fails "to put pressure on the D". What we're doing is not working.
4-18 Bucs at Cards
A team like the Pirates which have no consistent home run power threat must pretty much rely on pitching, defense and small ball offense to be successful. This team needs to play smart and be detail focused. Instead they continue to make bone-headed base running mistakes, play defense casually, and generally make a habit out of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Their manager's tendency for intractable strategies involving the use of his bench and bullpen further add to the problem.
Maybe a team like the '79 Pirates with their "Lumber Company" could afford to blow off the small stuff (although they seldom did) and still win most of their games, but this '17 version desperately needs to tighten up their ship. I believe this team can have some success but they need to start thinking the game and executing like they're getting paid to do.
Maybe a team like the '79 Pirates with their "Lumber Company" could afford to blow off the small stuff (although they seldom did) and still win most of their games, but this '17 version desperately needs to tighten up their ship. I believe this team can have some success but they need to start thinking the game and executing like they're getting paid to do.
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SammyKhalifa
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4-18 Bucs at Cards
They were 1 for 10 with RISP. There's no need to find any reason for them not scoring runs other than that.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
4-18 Bucs at Cards
Maybe Hanson had the green light to steal but didn't get a good jump or feel? We are told many players have the green light, but that doesn't mean they steal every time they are on base.
The Pirates didn't put hits together. The Cardinals put their four hits together. Not pressure on the defense, just big hits.
The Pirates didn't put hits together. The Cardinals put their four hits together. Not pressure on the defense, just big hits.
4-18 Bucs at Cards
In the end they got the bases loaded with one out so it is hard to fault the strategy. Also, from what I remember Hansen stole a lot of bases in the minors but also got caught a lot. I think that factors into the equation with Molina catching. Normally, I would like to steal but I wasn't upset in that situation.
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rucker59@gmail.com
4-18 Bucs at Cards
51636F6F7B496A636E6B6463020 wrote: They were 1 for 10 with RISP. There's no need to find any reason for them not scoring runs other than that.
I have to disagree. The miserable RISP stat makes me want to play small all the more. The key is advancing a runner on first one base without giving up an out. If they do that they can then advance the runner to 3rd with less than 2 outs.
I know Hamilton is a special case, but he completely changes the Reds' game. A single or a double is the same as a triple to Hamilton. The Pirates can't run like the Reds run Hamilton, but they have failed, for whatever reason, to use their speed very effectively in critical situations.
Maybe a few more of those RISP would come around if the Pirates tried to run more.
I have to disagree. The miserable RISP stat makes me want to play small all the more. The key is advancing a runner on first one base without giving up an out. If they do that they can then advance the runner to 3rd with less than 2 outs.
I know Hamilton is a special case, but he completely changes the Reds' game. A single or a double is the same as a triple to Hamilton. The Pirates can't run like the Reds run Hamilton, but they have failed, for whatever reason, to use their speed very effectively in critical situations.
Maybe a few more of those RISP would come around if the Pirates tried to run more.
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SammyKhalifa
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- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
4-18 Bucs at Cards
505741494750171B62454F434B4E0C414D4F220 wrote: They were 1 for 10 with RISP. There's no need to find any reason for them not scoring runs other than that.
I have to disagree. The miserable RISP stat makes me want to play small all the more. The key is advancing a runner on first one base without giving up an out. If they do that they can then advance the runner to 3rd with less than 2 outs.
I know Hamilton is a special case, but he completely changes the Reds' game. A single or a double is the same as a triple to Hamilton. The Pirates can't run like the Reds run Hamilton, but they have failed, for whatever reason, to use their speed very effectively in critical situations.
Maybe a few more of those RISP would come around if the Pirates tried to run more.
I think there would just be fewer guys ISP.
Keep in mind that by definition that runners on first base aren't in the RISP numbers. Sure you could try to get guys from first to third more often instead of to second, or wave guys home more from 2b; but that tends to also be the kind of thing that gets third base coaches fired. We seem to want it both ways in terms of blaming the coaches.
I have to disagree. The miserable RISP stat makes me want to play small all the more. The key is advancing a runner on first one base without giving up an out. If they do that they can then advance the runner to 3rd with less than 2 outs.
I know Hamilton is a special case, but he completely changes the Reds' game. A single or a double is the same as a triple to Hamilton. The Pirates can't run like the Reds run Hamilton, but they have failed, for whatever reason, to use their speed very effectively in critical situations.
Maybe a few more of those RISP would come around if the Pirates tried to run more.
I think there would just be fewer guys ISP.
Keep in mind that by definition that runners on first base aren't in the RISP numbers. Sure you could try to get guys from first to third more often instead of to second, or wave guys home more from 2b; but that tends to also be the kind of thing that gets third base coaches fired. We seem to want it both ways in terms of blaming the coaches.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
4-18 Bucs at Cards
That's always the debate:
Should teams who are not scoring give up outs?
Should they bunt more, sacrifice more, hit and run more, steal more, maybe squeeze?
Or should they cherish every out and not give them away since they need them?
Should teams who are not scoring give up outs?
Should they bunt more, sacrifice more, hit and run more, steal more, maybe squeeze?
Or should they cherish every out and not give them away since they need them?
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SammyKhalifa
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- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
4-18 Bucs at Cards
Yeah, to be fair I'm always a "play it safe" kind of person.
I guess what bothered me initially is that for some people no matter what decision someone makes, it's the wrong one because we don't like them and we'll go back later and figure out why. Guys get caught stealing? It's the coach's fault! Guys don't score? It's the coach's fault!
I'd rather place the blame on our woes at the feet of our two best hitters, who are off in their respective purgatories for doing bad things. Marte obviously applies only to yesterday.
Or, you know, one of the batters who WERE there but couldn't pull through nine out of ten times last night. Even weak hitting teams should be better than that. Power or not, guys will likely score from second (scoring position) on a single.
I guess what bothered me initially is that for some people no matter what decision someone makes, it's the wrong one because we don't like them and we'll go back later and figure out why. Guys get caught stealing? It's the coach's fault! Guys don't score? It's the coach's fault!
I'd rather place the blame on our woes at the feet of our two best hitters, who are off in their respective purgatories for doing bad things. Marte obviously applies only to yesterday.
Or, you know, one of the batters who WERE there but couldn't pull through nine out of ten times last night. Even weak hitting teams should be better than that. Power or not, guys will likely score from second (scoring position) on a single.