Frazier vs Harrison
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
Frazier vs Harrison
They need Frazier's bat in the lineup. But the old adage of pitching and defense is still relevant. If you put a weak fielder at 2B and hope he hits well enough to compensate for allowing runs to score, then you are just breaking even. You need good defense and also good hitting. Pedro Alvarez, for all his HR power, spent the year in AAA because no one wanted him due to his defensive inadequacies. Even AL teams didn't want a DH who couldn't be used in the field. It shows how teams value defense. Frazier is a good leadoff hitter. I suspect one of the 3 Pirate OF starters will be dealt and replaced by Frazier. Even if Harrison is traded, I doubt Frazier would take over 2B.
Frazier vs Harrison
Anyone who even dreams that Adam Frazier has shown he's capable of being a regular 2Bman at the major league level should wake up apologizing.
Here's some numbers for ya:
Adam Frazier's fielding % as a second baseman is .947 which is 35 points below league average for a second baseman (.982).
For some context:
Pedro Alvarez has a fielding % of .931 as a third baseman which is 25 points below league average for a third baseman (.956).
Frazier is at best a platoon/regular outfielder whose presence at second base should be limited exclusively to his time as a baserunner.
Here's some numbers for ya:
Adam Frazier's fielding % as a second baseman is .947 which is 35 points below league average for a second baseman (.982).
For some context:
Pedro Alvarez has a fielding % of .931 as a third baseman which is 25 points below league average for a third baseman (.956).
Frazier is at best a platoon/regular outfielder whose presence at second base should be limited exclusively to his time as a baserunner.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Frazier vs Harrison
Frazier was the back up second baseman this year. He also had 13 starts at 2B in 2016 compared to Rodriguez's 18 starts.
The Pirates think he can play the position or are at least trying him there when Harrison isn't in the game. I agree he is pretty bad at 2B, but do the Pirates?
The Pirates think he can play the position or are at least trying him there when Harrison isn't in the game. I agree he is pretty bad at 2B, but do the Pirates?
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DemDog
Frazier vs Harrison
2D262E2227263D787E093028212626672A26490 wrote: Frazier was the back up second baseman this year. He also had 13 starts at 2B in 2016 compared to Rodriguez's 18 starts.
The Pirates think he can play the position or are at least trying him there when Harrison isn't in the game. I agree he is pretty bad at 2B, but do the Pirates?
Dog, you need a lesson in learning. You see when you are being taught something or are doing some trial or testing of something you must learn from the results. Hey, Jonas Salk did not just sit down and mix some chemicals and suddenly invent a vaccine for polio he worked for many years. If you don't know who Jonas Salk is just Google him.
Such is what the Buccos have done with Frazier at 2B last year and this. Gave him a nice number of chances to see what he could do. He proved that at best he could be an emergency backup at 2B for a game or two not as a regular. Now Dog I hope this teaching moment hits you in the ol' cranium and you learn from it concerning Frazier. I will give you a break this time and not give you a "Dunce Cap" to wear over the off season. You may have to Google that too.
Face it Dog everyone is happy that TBMTIBB does not listen to you.
The Pirates think he can play the position or are at least trying him there when Harrison isn't in the game. I agree he is pretty bad at 2B, but do the Pirates?
Dog, you need a lesson in learning. You see when you are being taught something or are doing some trial or testing of something you must learn from the results. Hey, Jonas Salk did not just sit down and mix some chemicals and suddenly invent a vaccine for polio he worked for many years. If you don't know who Jonas Salk is just Google him.
Such is what the Buccos have done with Frazier at 2B last year and this. Gave him a nice number of chances to see what he could do. He proved that at best he could be an emergency backup at 2B for a game or two not as a regular. Now Dog I hope this teaching moment hits you in the ol' cranium and you learn from it concerning Frazier. I will give you a break this time and not give you a "Dunce Cap" to wear over the off season. You may have to Google that too.
Face it Dog everyone is happy that TBMTIBB does not listen to you.
Frazier vs Harrison
454E464A4F4E551016615840494E4E0F424E210 wrote: Because they play the same position. Teams who are contending trade a surplus for a need. The Pirates have two second baseman that can provide the same type of play.
Teams usually trade veterans so they can keep the younger, controlled player. This happens all the time. The Pirates just traded Walker for a need because they had Harrison.
If Harrison can bring in a need, I can see that move happening due to Frazier. If you think both players are similar, of course you keep the cheaper, younger player who could still be on a rise.
If the Pirates had both Josh Bell and Carlos Santana, wouldn't you try to trade the older Santana and keep Bell? They both have similar numbers, but Bell is six years younger.
Again, I wouldn't be surprised if Harrison is traded to help fill other holes considering Frazier can probably hold down second base.
Dude you can type "again..." As many times as you want to. Frazier and jHay aren't comparable 2bman by any stretch of anyone's imagination. One fields well, the other can't field it at all.
Even if they hit similarly, which is possible next year but certainly by no means guaranteed, a no-glove 2nd baseman needs to hit a hell of a lot better than Frazier does to make up for a huge defensive gap between the two players.
Now you very well may be right that the team will trade Jhay and have Frazier and Moroff play 2b because we are a really stupid team that cares first and foremost about saving money, but there's essentially no chance Frazier and jHay are of similar value as starting 2bman.
That's never stopped us from pocketing 9 million dollars before, so I agree we might go ahead and do it.
I hope you get a percentage of the savings, I really do. You deserve it for all the PR you do
Teams usually trade veterans so they can keep the younger, controlled player. This happens all the time. The Pirates just traded Walker for a need because they had Harrison.
If Harrison can bring in a need, I can see that move happening due to Frazier. If you think both players are similar, of course you keep the cheaper, younger player who could still be on a rise.
If the Pirates had both Josh Bell and Carlos Santana, wouldn't you try to trade the older Santana and keep Bell? They both have similar numbers, but Bell is six years younger.
Again, I wouldn't be surprised if Harrison is traded to help fill other holes considering Frazier can probably hold down second base.
Dude you can type "again..." As many times as you want to. Frazier and jHay aren't comparable 2bman by any stretch of anyone's imagination. One fields well, the other can't field it at all.
Even if they hit similarly, which is possible next year but certainly by no means guaranteed, a no-glove 2nd baseman needs to hit a hell of a lot better than Frazier does to make up for a huge defensive gap between the two players.
Now you very well may be right that the team will trade Jhay and have Frazier and Moroff play 2b because we are a really stupid team that cares first and foremost about saving money, but there's essentially no chance Frazier and jHay are of similar value as starting 2bman.
That's never stopped us from pocketing 9 million dollars before, so I agree we might go ahead and do it.
I hope you get a percentage of the savings, I really do. You deserve it for all the PR you do
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Frazier vs Harrison
What are you trying to teach me?
Why is Frazier ok to replace Harrison when Harrison is out? 33 games is a lot of starts.
Since Alvarez's defense was pointed out (again), the Pirates made the playoffs with him leading the league in errors at 3B and then 1B (he had to be the worst fielding 1B ever).
So, I did learn how one really bad fielder won't kill a team if they can contribute in other areas. Would Frazier be worse than Alvarez?
Why is Frazier ok to replace Harrison when Harrison is out? 33 games is a lot of starts.
Since Alvarez's defense was pointed out (again), the Pirates made the playoffs with him leading the league in errors at 3B and then 1B (he had to be the worst fielding 1B ever).
So, I did learn how one really bad fielder won't kill a team if they can contribute in other areas. Would Frazier be worse than Alvarez?
Frazier vs Harrison
4E454D4144455E1B1D6A534B4245450449452A0 wrote: What are you trying to teach me?
Why is Frazier ok to replace Harrison when Harrison is out? 33 games is a lot of starts.
Whoa there. Who said it was OK for Frazier to replace JHay for 33 games? Just because the team actually did it, that makes it ok ? (I know for YOU that answer is yes but I'm asking rhetorically since the answer is obviously no)
Was Jaso OK to play OF for 60 games (46 which were starts) because it actually happened?
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What are you doing with the 9 million dollars? You never answered.
Are we putting it towards having a big middle of the order bat playing 3b with that savings, to help offset the significant defensive downgrade at 2b? Or maybe RF, same big bat? Or just bullpen pieces like you suggested in other threads?
Why is Frazier ok to replace Harrison when Harrison is out? 33 games is a lot of starts.
Whoa there. Who said it was OK for Frazier to replace JHay for 33 games? Just because the team actually did it, that makes it ok ? (I know for YOU that answer is yes but I'm asking rhetorically since the answer is obviously no)
Was Jaso OK to play OF for 60 games (46 which were starts) because it actually happened?
__________
What are you doing with the 9 million dollars? You never answered.
Are we putting it towards having a big middle of the order bat playing 3b with that savings, to help offset the significant defensive downgrade at 2b? Or maybe RF, same big bat? Or just bullpen pieces like you suggested in other threads?
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DemDog
Frazier vs Harrison
28232B272223387D7B0C352D242323622F234C0 wrote: What are you trying to teach me?
Why is Frazier ok to replace Harrison when Harrison is out? 33 games is a lot of starts.
Since Alvarez's defense was pointed out (again), the Pirates made the playoffs with him leading the league in errors at 3B and then 1B (he had to be the worst fielding 1B ever).
So, I did learn how one really bad fielder won't kill a team if they can contribute in other areas. Would Frazier be worse than Alvarez?
I guess my efforts to teach you a thing or two will go wasted. You are incapable of learning when you watch something happen. Geesh!!!! I have to say that your ability to understanding why myself and others are trying to explain and teach you about Frazier compared to Harrison is useless. About as useless as a screen door in a submarine!
Why is Frazier ok to replace Harrison when Harrison is out? 33 games is a lot of starts.
Since Alvarez's defense was pointed out (again), the Pirates made the playoffs with him leading the league in errors at 3B and then 1B (he had to be the worst fielding 1B ever).
So, I did learn how one really bad fielder won't kill a team if they can contribute in other areas. Would Frazier be worse than Alvarez?
I guess my efforts to teach you a thing or two will go wasted. You are incapable of learning when you watch something happen. Geesh!!!! I have to say that your ability to understanding why myself and others are trying to explain and teach you about Frazier compared to Harrison is useless. About as useless as a screen door in a submarine!
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Frazier vs Harrison
Dmetz hit the nail on the head. The only reason to trade Harrison and give the 2B job to Frazier is to save the 9-10 million. Harrison is the all round superior player. The other variable that has not been discussed is that Harrison is a leader and probably the only player that goes all out 100% of the time. What value do you put on that?
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iwatch
Frazier vs Harrison
You have all missed the obvious winter trade: Harrison and Cervelli for a low A prospect or AAAA pitcher. To ditch Cervelli's contract we add the desirable Harrison. This will generate some additional financial flexibility. Tell me this isn't exactly what TBMTIB would do.