5354424A4453141861464C40484D0F424E4C210 wrote: Quintana or Archer would have pushed them to the A area.I agree if that was the deal they should've jumped at it. I really doubt there was a deal not involving Meadows.
Depends on what they gave up. No way I am trading Glasnow, Keller, and Bell for either of them. Local media guy noted on Twitter that the Pirates should have pulled the trigger: those three for Quintana.
I would move those three. Keller is the biggest loss. We can replace Bell if need be. Glasnow is going to bull pen.
Off season grade would jump to A.
Grade the Pirates off season
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Grade the Pirates off season
7374626A6473343841666C60686D2F626E6C010 wrote: Quintana or Archer would have pushed them to the A area.
Depends on what they gave up. No way I am trading Glasnow, Keller, and Bell for either of them. Local media guy noted on Twitter that the Pirates should have pulled the trigger: those three for Quintana.
I would move those three. Keller is the biggest loss. We can replace Bell if need be. Glasnow is going to bull pen.
Off season grade would jump to A.
I agree. If the Pirates had acquired Quintana with those assets I would give 'em an A.
Depends on what they gave up. No way I am trading Glasnow, Keller, and Bell for either of them. Local media guy noted on Twitter that the Pirates should have pulled the trigger: those three for Quintana.
I would move those three. Keller is the biggest loss. We can replace Bell if need be. Glasnow is going to bull pen.
Off season grade would jump to A.
I agree. If the Pirates had acquired Quintana with those assets I would give 'em an A.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
Grade the Pirates off season
I disagree. I would love to have Quintana, but then the Pirates would have no 1B (Bell) and no top of the rotation prospect (Keller) coming up soon. If that trade happened, it would be an "all in" move. It could (chance) put the Pirates in a "favorite" category, but would really hurt the future if Cole, Nova leave soon.
I don't think two of the three can be moved together: Keller, Meadows, Glasnow. That is way too much in my opinion.
I don't think two of the three can be moved together: Keller, Meadows, Glasnow. That is way too much in my opinion.
-
SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3642
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Grade the Pirates off season
0D293D35305C0 wrote: Quintana or Archer would have pushed them to the A area.
Depends on what they gave up. No way I am trading Glasnow, Keller, and Bell for either of them. Local media guy noted on Twitter that the Pirates should have pulled the trigger: those three for Quintana.
I would move those three. Keller is the biggest loss. We can replace Bell if need be. Glasnow is going to bull pen.
Off season grade would jump to A.
I agree. If the Pirates had acquired Quintana with those assets I would give 'em an A.
Maybe I'm just too timid with these kinds of things, but I'm leery of cashing in all (most) of your chips in order to still not be good enough.
Depends on what they gave up. No way I am trading Glasnow, Keller, and Bell for either of them. Local media guy noted on Twitter that the Pirates should have pulled the trigger: those three for Quintana.
I would move those three. Keller is the biggest loss. We can replace Bell if need be. Glasnow is going to bull pen.
Off season grade would jump to A.
I agree. If the Pirates had acquired Quintana with those assets I would give 'em an A.
Maybe I'm just too timid with these kinds of things, but I'm leery of cashing in all (most) of your chips in order to still not be good enough.
-
Bobster21
Grade the Pirates off season
64565A5A4E7C5F565B5E5156370 wrote:
Maybe I'm just too timid with these kinds of things, but I'm leery of cashing in all (most) of your chips in order to still not be good enough.
I agree. We're still wondering if Cole, Cutch, Harrison and Cervelli will bounce back. And if Kang will play at all this year. And if Watson can be a legit closer. It would be very possible to make that trade for Quintana and still not get past the WC game if they got there at all. It's very possible everyone bounces back and the starting rotation does well. But there are enough questions that I would not give up those prospects to go "all in" with Quintana when getting him may not be enough.
BTW-Baseball reference lists comparable all-time pitchers by the same age (27) as Quintana and #4 is Jon Niese. Yikes!
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... jo01.shtml
Maybe I'm just too timid with these kinds of things, but I'm leery of cashing in all (most) of your chips in order to still not be good enough.
I agree. We're still wondering if Cole, Cutch, Harrison and Cervelli will bounce back. And if Kang will play at all this year. And if Watson can be a legit closer. It would be very possible to make that trade for Quintana and still not get past the WC game if they got there at all. It's very possible everyone bounces back and the starting rotation does well. But there are enough questions that I would not give up those prospects to go "all in" with Quintana when getting him may not be enough.
BTW-Baseball reference lists comparable all-time pitchers by the same age (27) as Quintana and #4 is Jon Niese. Yikes!
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... jo01.shtml
Grade the Pirates off season
022F22333425327271400 wrote:
Maybe I'm just too timid with these kinds of things, but I'm leery of cashing in all (most) of your chips in order to still not be good enough.
I agree. We're still wondering if Cole, Cutch, Harrison and Cervelli will bounce back. And if Kang will play at all this year. And if Watson can be a legit closer. It would be very possible to make that trade for Quintana and still not get past the WC game if they got there at all. It's very possible everyone bounces back and the starting rotation does well. But there are enough questions that I would not give up those prospects to go "all in" with Quintana when getting him may not be enough.
BTW-Baseball reference lists comparable all-time pitchers by the same age (27) as Quintana and #4 is Jon Niese. Yikes!
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... jo01.shtml
I agree. If we played in a different division, maybe. Perhaps I'm just cynical, but I don't see in even the best case scenario we overtake the Cubs. I'm optimistic on the season, more so than last year, certainly. But I'm also realistic. It's not a knock on our team. It's an acknowledgment that the Cubs are just that good.
Maybe I'm just too timid with these kinds of things, but I'm leery of cashing in all (most) of your chips in order to still not be good enough.
I agree. We're still wondering if Cole, Cutch, Harrison and Cervelli will bounce back. And if Kang will play at all this year. And if Watson can be a legit closer. It would be very possible to make that trade for Quintana and still not get past the WC game if they got there at all. It's very possible everyone bounces back and the starting rotation does well. But there are enough questions that I would not give up those prospects to go "all in" with Quintana when getting him may not be enough.
BTW-Baseball reference lists comparable all-time pitchers by the same age (27) as Quintana and #4 is Jon Niese. Yikes!
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... jo01.shtml
I agree. If we played in a different division, maybe. Perhaps I'm just cynical, but I don't see in even the best case scenario we overtake the Cubs. I'm optimistic on the season, more so than last year, certainly. But I'm also realistic. It's not a knock on our team. It's an acknowledgment that the Cubs are just that good.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
Grade the Pirates off season
The Cubs were very good last year. They didn't make any moves to improve on last year, in my opinion. They will still be very good, but they lost some key guys and replaced them with worse players.
Losing Chapman, Fowler, and Ross could be big blows. Hammel, Woods, and some bench guys not returning didn't help either.
They will still be very good. I am not sure they will be 2016 good.
Losing Chapman, Fowler, and Ross could be big blows. Hammel, Woods, and some bench guys not returning didn't help either.
They will still be very good. I am not sure they will be 2016 good.
-
Bobster21
Grade the Pirates off season
464D45494C4D561315625B434A4D4D0C414D220 wrote: The Cubs were very good last year. They didn't make any moves to improve on last year, in my opinion. They will still be very good, but they lost some key guys and replaced them with worse players.
Losing Chapman, Fowler, and Ross could be big blows. Hammel, Woods, and some bench guys not returning didn't help either.
They will still be very good. I am not sure they will be 2016 good.
Just as we expect Cutch to bounce back, the Cubs expect Heyward to rebound. They also get Schwarber back. That will help compensate for losing some players. I don't think the Pirates can make up the 25 game gap between the 2 teams last year.
Losing Chapman, Fowler, and Ross could be big blows. Hammel, Woods, and some bench guys not returning didn't help either.
They will still be very good. I am not sure they will be 2016 good.
Just as we expect Cutch to bounce back, the Cubs expect Heyward to rebound. They also get Schwarber back. That will help compensate for losing some players. I don't think the Pirates can make up the 25 game gap between the 2 teams last year.
-
DemDog
Grade the Pirates off season
I am giving NH and company and "I" for incomplete. Can't really grade the moves until I see how things turn out for the Bucs. Some of the deals may be good just as some may be bad.
Will Glasnow and Kuhl manage to be adequate ML starters this season. What about the other guys who are competing with them? ST is just not enough time to decide on a final grade.
Will JHay rebound? A guy who works and hustles like him you hope he does.
What about Fraser? Can he take over for SRod as the super sub? And will the be able to get away playing some one like Fraser or Hanson etc as the 4th OF?
And Cutch, will he approach being the Cutch of old? and will Marte show us some more power to got with his defense and on base and steals talent? And the biggest question I have is will Polanco continue to grow?
I look at the players they have brought in to replace some of the guys from last year. Not much on paper but who knows one of them or maybe a few of them will surprise us and help this time get back to winning and making a play off run.
Will Glasnow and Kuhl manage to be adequate ML starters this season. What about the other guys who are competing with them? ST is just not enough time to decide on a final grade.
Will JHay rebound? A guy who works and hustles like him you hope he does.
What about Fraser? Can he take over for SRod as the super sub? And will the be able to get away playing some one like Fraser or Hanson etc as the 4th OF?
And Cutch, will he approach being the Cutch of old? and will Marte show us some more power to got with his defense and on base and steals talent? And the biggest question I have is will Polanco continue to grow?
I look at the players they have brought in to replace some of the guys from last year. Not much on paper but who knows one of them or maybe a few of them will surprise us and help this time get back to winning and making a play off run.
-
SteadyFreddy
Grade the Pirates off season
3334222A2433747801262C20282D6F222E2C410 wrote: It was all just talk during the winter because we didn't know what management would do before the end of ST. It looks like we can put a wrap on this offseason.
Significant moves:
Well Cutch was not traded and he moved to RF.
Kang is gone.
Nova signed.
A bit of bullpen/bench help, but nothing significant.
Overall grade for the offseason?
Are the Pirates better or worse then Breaking camp last year?
I don't think the Pirates can be held accountable for their approach to Kang.
They signed Nova which I agree with. Cole and Tallion look to be ready to lead this team. I don't know what to think about Bell short term; long term I think he'll rake.
Clearly one starter short. There is zero room for error or injuries. Not much "ready" depth anywhere.
Final grade for off season: D, very poor. But Nova keeps the grade above "failing".
2016 v 2017 opening day roster:
Healthy Cole, tested Tallion and wildcard Nova elevate the top end of the rotation over last year. Back end is no worse this year than last year. Rotation 2017 > 2016.
Lineup - Kang was absent last year as well. Bell should be an Upgrade at 1st at least with the bad; his power could be critical. The rest of the lineup is pretty much identical but with a bit more critical experience for Polanco and Mercer. 2017 > 2016, slightly.
Bench - not much to be said 2017 < 2016.
Pen?
2017 is slightly better than 2016. Let's hope we get significantly better performance from most position. I agree with you VA I would probably give them a D. Re-signing Nova was a good move, and I think bringing in a guy like Hudson was a solid move and losing Feliz and acquiring Hudson will end up being a wash. Other then that the Pirates did essentially nothing. I look at a team like the Nationals who know that Bryce Harper when his contract expires is going to leave. They went out and traded one of the top prospects in baseball in Giolito so they could get a guy like Adam Eaton to play center and leadoff. They also went out and a signed Matt Weiters and picked up Adam Lind as well. They seem like a team who is trying to win now knowing that they are going to lose Harper in the next few years as opposed to worrying about the future.
I like how Huntington has done things over the years in terms of wanting to win consistently every year, but I just wish the Pirates at some point would take that same approach when it comes to trading some of these top prospects like a Glasnow or Keller for a guy like Quintana who can help your chances much better of being a playoff team this year and the next few years when guys like Cutch and Cole are probably going to leave.
Significant moves:
Well Cutch was not traded and he moved to RF.
Kang is gone.
Nova signed.
A bit of bullpen/bench help, but nothing significant.
Overall grade for the offseason?
Are the Pirates better or worse then Breaking camp last year?
I don't think the Pirates can be held accountable for their approach to Kang.
They signed Nova which I agree with. Cole and Tallion look to be ready to lead this team. I don't know what to think about Bell short term; long term I think he'll rake.
Clearly one starter short. There is zero room for error or injuries. Not much "ready" depth anywhere.
Final grade for off season: D, very poor. But Nova keeps the grade above "failing".
2016 v 2017 opening day roster:
Healthy Cole, tested Tallion and wildcard Nova elevate the top end of the rotation over last year. Back end is no worse this year than last year. Rotation 2017 > 2016.
Lineup - Kang was absent last year as well. Bell should be an Upgrade at 1st at least with the bad; his power could be critical. The rest of the lineup is pretty much identical but with a bit more critical experience for Polanco and Mercer. 2017 > 2016, slightly.
Bench - not much to be said 2017 < 2016.
Pen?
2017 is slightly better than 2016. Let's hope we get significantly better performance from most position. I agree with you VA I would probably give them a D. Re-signing Nova was a good move, and I think bringing in a guy like Hudson was a solid move and losing Feliz and acquiring Hudson will end up being a wash. Other then that the Pirates did essentially nothing. I look at a team like the Nationals who know that Bryce Harper when his contract expires is going to leave. They went out and traded one of the top prospects in baseball in Giolito so they could get a guy like Adam Eaton to play center and leadoff. They also went out and a signed Matt Weiters and picked up Adam Lind as well. They seem like a team who is trying to win now knowing that they are going to lose Harper in the next few years as opposed to worrying about the future.
I like how Huntington has done things over the years in terms of wanting to win consistently every year, but I just wish the Pirates at some point would take that same approach when it comes to trading some of these top prospects like a Glasnow or Keller for a guy like Quintana who can help your chances much better of being a playoff team this year and the next few years when guys like Cutch and Cole are probably going to leave.